Subject:
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Re: The Brick Testament parts the Red Sea
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Wed, 4 Dec 2002 19:06:49 GMT
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Viewed:
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2084 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Brendan Powell Smith writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, David Koudys writes:
> > From post http://news.lugnet.com/off-topic/debate/?n=18491
> >
> > Where the first tweaking began...
> >
> > "
> > > God Bless, (yes I believe in God, his son Jesus who died for my sins,
> > > and the holy spirit.)
> >
> > May Maury the Talking Kangaroo watch over you in the night!
> >
> > -Rev. Smith
>
> This was not intended as a harsh comment. It's just that when someone says
> "God bless" to me, and then specifies that the God who they are asking to
> bless me is the God of Christianity, it has as much meaning to me as my
> imploring Maury the Talking Kangaroo to watch over someone would have to a
> Christian.
>
> Why would you tell an atheist "God bless" if you know he doesn't believe in
> God? I don't mind in the least if you privately ask your God to bless me,
> but when you end a message to an atheist with "God bless", it comes across
> as "oh, and by the way, I'm right and you're wrong about what you believe".
> It may not exactly be what was intended, but that's how it comes across.
And I have no problem with the 'refusal' of a blessing, and i do concur with
your take on the, "Oh, you're an Athiest so I'm just going to throw that
'God Bless' at *you* to tweak your nose, 'cause I'm right and you're wrong
not to believe". However, if I say, "God Bless" to you without the 'baggage
attached', then it's an unintended sleight, and you can call me on it--"I
don't appreciate the blessing for I believe that God doesn't exist". I, as
the other person, should, and will respect your wishes--this is why I don't
'talk God' at work, et al, for the risk of offense is there. Folks know I'm
a Christian and if they wish to discuss, I'm more than willing. I do not
subscribe to the idea of 'pushing God' onto others, but that's just me.
Moreover, many folks in the world say 'God bless' during holiday seasons,
when others sneeze, and whenever else, even if they are non-believing folks.
Saying 'God bless' is almost negligible in a religous sense, and, for
myself, I would not take offense if someone spoke it to me--Oh wait, why
would I? Neither here nor there--my friends and co-workers do not take
offense either when I say 'God bless'. However, if someone does, as you
pointed out here, then it shouldn't get said.
> > In this discussion you have used the spaceship/kangaroo scenario as an
> > *example* as to how ludicrous you believe Christianity to be--to basically
> > reinforce your point, and you used this scenario as a debate tool. Where
> > the line was crossed, is when the facetious/sarcastic example was directed
> > at a *person*, not the topic.
> >
> > Since no one, including yourself, believes in this 'Maury the Talking
> > Kangaroo', you are basically 'tweaking the nose' of Christians and their
> > beliefs with the expression, "May Maury the Talking Kangaroo watch over you
> > in the night!"--you are moving away from the debate of the actual issue(s)
> > into the realm of 'pot-shots' at people on the other side of the debate.
>
> Again, it wasn't meant to antagonize, but to illustrate something.
Illustrating for the debate is fine and dandy--its when it leaves the debate
on the issue and hits the person directly. Is like "Bush is a moron" or
"Bush's policies are moronic". One is fully in the realm of the debate, the
other is an attack on the person. I concede that the faux pas by a fellow
Canadian was an attack on the person, when she wanted to attack the policy.
'Nother topic long since past.
>
> > Further, since the belief in God is in the realm of faith, for someone to
> > say, 'I believe in God' and you denounce *their* belief in a facetious way,
> > it doesn't facilitate good continuing debate.
> >
> > Anyway, hope that's clear enuf.
> >
> > As an aside, I used to write for a newsletter a while back, and I signed off
> > as "Dr. David Geoffrey Koudys"--the Dr. part came in for reasons that are
> > irrelevant to this discussion, but I have no post-secondary education
> > warranting the Dr. and some folks called me on it, saying that I was
> > 'belittling the Dr. profession'. I may not have personally agreed with it,
> > but I saw their point and promptly dropped the 'Dr.' from my sign-off. I
> > was wondering, do you have the necessary qualifications to use the 'Rev.'?
>
> I feel that "Reverend" is a significantly different sort of title than
> "Doctor". Whereas "Doctor" informs others of a particular college degree
> that the title-bearer has earned, and makes no value-statement about the
> bearer, "Reverend" boldly proclaims that the title-bearer is or should be
> revered by others. Its use by ministers and priests strikes me as quite
> pompous. It's like a adding "the Great" to the end of your name. And if
> religious authority figures can be pompous, why can't I? I have never
> falsely described myself to anyone as a minister or priest, or any other
> sort of position-holder in an organized religion, so I don't particularly
> feel like I am seriously misrepresenting myself.
And I disagree--I know padres who go to school for a long time, just as long
as doctors, to get their MDiv. and such--the respect, so I'm told, is in the
'higher education'. People who go around calling themselves 'Reverends'
without the certificate(education) are on par as those who go around calling
themselves 'Doctors' without the medical degree to back them up. There have
always been issues with 'quack' doctors, as there are with zealotous
reverends--it comes with the territory. But to arbitrarily say that 'Hey,
I'm going to be a reverend today' is an issue, like when I attached Dr. onto
my name. Others pointed out to me why they disagreed with it and I saw
their point.
>
> > Take care.
>
> This is a much less antagonistic closing for a message directed at an
> atheist. Thank you.
Ah, it's what I usually say at the end of all my e-mail correspondance. To
me, read into it as--
Take care! If you need me I'm here for ya! Just give me a call and I'll be
right over, for that's what friends 'suit up for'!
But most people don't get that, or they just dont call.
My old boss used to sign off e-mail and phone conversations with 'Drive
safe'. Kinda apropos for he was the CEO of a trucking company.
> Take care,
>
> -Rev. Smith
Dave K.
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Message has 1 Reply:
Message is in Reply To:
 | | Re: The Brick Testament parts the Red Sea
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| (...) This was not intended as a harsh comment. It's just that when someone says "God bless" to me, and then specifies that the God who they are asking to bless me is the God of Christianity, it has as much meaning to me as my imploring Maury the (...) (22 years ago, 4-Dec-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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