Subject:
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Re: Vote against/for...
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Tue, 12 Nov 2002 20:36:17 GMT
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Viewed:
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921 times
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> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Pedro Silva writes:
> > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal writes:
> Proselythism is a constant of practically all religions.
Not the believe like us or die variety. That may be been en vogue 100s of
years ago for Christianity, but Christianity grew out of those dark times, and
continues to change with time (although the basic message is the same).
Islam has no ability to grow, because the Koran was written directly by Allah
himself and so it is perfect for all time the way it is. Burning libraries was
a perfectly good idea, because, if you have the Koran, why would you need any
other book? All you need is right there. That kind attitude contributed
greatly to the demise of the once flourishing Islamic culture.
> And BTW, there is
> no ground in the Khoran to actively pursue murder of non-muslims - the only
> statement regards those who fight the Muslim faith "per se" (ie, crusaders
> in the 12th century). Please do not misread that Book, like some do for
> their own purposes - that would be playing their game.
I think there is only 1 way to read the Koran to fundamentalist Muslim
extremists who are providing the theological justification for Islamic
terrorists. 10,000 of Muslims are persecuted for not believing the way they
do, much less we non-Muslims.
> Please quote Allah, in his exact terms. Otherwise, withdraw the statement.
The Cow
[2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence
they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight
with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do
fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.
[9.123] O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near
to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who
guard (against evil).
[2.90] Evil is that for which they have sold their souls-- that they should
deny what Allah has revealed, out of envy that Allah should send down of His
grace on whomsoever of His servants He pleases; so they have made themselves
deserving of wrath upon wrath, and there is a disgraceful punishment for the
unbelievers.
Just to cite a few. Those words taken literally equals justified violence
against unbelievers.
> > Their anger and hatred is about you and me differing from them, not about
> > anything we ever did to them. This is what rational-minded people are
> > finding so hard to fathom, but the sooner we get past looking at ourselves
> > for explanations as fuel for their behavior, the sooner we can effectively
> > deal with leaders who teach/promote/exploit this hatred.
> Aren't those two sentences contradictory? (ie, they hate us for being
> different, but it is not within us that we'll find explanation for it)
I meant they hate us because we are different (meaning we don't believe as they
do). They don't hate us for anything we have done *to* them. We could be just
minding our own business and they'd hate us-- that is a concept that is
difficult for Westerners to understand. We tend to think that someone hates us
for something we *did* to them (a rational explanation), not because we are
simply different.
> I'm not saying islamic extremists are good guys. NO! All I'm saying is that
> they use *the cover* of Islam to achieve their political purposes (the
> leaders), at the expense of the average pawn (the brainwashed terrorist). It
> is *unspecific* of Islam as a technique - it is only far more obvious in
> that case, given that one sixth of the World population follows that Religion...
It is a specific technique of Islam *as interpreted by Islamic extremists*.
Though it is true that secular leaders such as Hussein, Arafat, OBL are tapping
into that hatred to advance their own political agenda, this *is* a religious
movement that not only is terrorizing non-Arabs, but 10,000s of Muslims as well.
Wait until we free Iraq of Hussein and its religious extremist leaders. The
Iraqis will be *thanking* us for their liberation. And so will the Iranians,
and so will the Palestinians (as did Afghanistan)
-John
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Vote against/for...
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| (...) Islam is not "Believe or die", nor it ever was. Neither was Christianity. Yet, both religions were used as pretexts by loonies - that is inevitable! (...) I have a hard time believing Allah wrote the Khoran. Somehow I tend to follow a more (...) (22 years ago, 12-Nov-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Vote against/for...
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| (...) Actually, the bomb was dropped to scare the Japanese, thus ending the war. I don't see that as terrorism, though - terrorism implies a much more prolonged chain of events than a couple weeks in August '45. Terrorism is ETA in Spain, IRA in (...) (22 years ago, 12-Nov-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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