Subject:
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Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Fri, 5 Jul 2002 15:21:38 GMT
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Viewed:
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4189 times
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Congratulations, John. In your responses below you have proven, beyond a shadow of a
doubt, that you cannot read anything over 1-2 sentences long and comprehend it.
That, or that you simply refuse to comprehend it (which you proved with your last
response).
Everyone - below is the proof you need to just stop replying to John. He won't read
your response and understand it, or will refuse to try to understand it, and blather
on about your statements thinking he understands it, wasting your time over and over
again.
Richard - for the love of X, please don't respond to John. End his insane responses
by not responding to them.
John wrote:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Richard Marchetti writes:
> > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal writes:
> > > I have a couple of questions for you-- do you, in general, have a problem with
> > > patriotism? Do you ever feel a little uncomfortable calling America "great"
> > > (not the greatest, just "great")? Just wondering.
> >
> > Only because I am finishing my breakfast and only because it is the day it is...
> >
> > I do have a problem with patriotism. It is the same problem I have with
> > most "religious" people and their seemingly mad fervor for whatever thing
> > they happen to believe.
>
> Little judgmental this morning, are we?
>
> To follow something blindly -- uneducated and
> > intentionally ignorant
>
> What's ignorant here is your elitism and your hatred. I thought lefties were
> supposed to be the tolerant ones...
>
> -- is really to favor a kind of tyranny. That
> > tyranny is the tyranny of the people that lead you, and the tyranny of what
> > they tell you to believe. No flag waving will ever replace real knowledge
> > of what our political system is supposed to be about, or real critical
> > knowledge of the world around you. True patriotism reveals itself in the
> > unique actions and wisdom of individuals, and not through symbolic pledges
> > and rituals performed in the presence of others engaged in the same groupthink.
> >
> > True patriotism is informed. True patriotism is vigilant against tyranny.
> > True patriotism condemns the tyranny of pure democracy and favors the
> > republican form of government AND the protection of individual rights. True
> > patriotism strives for the betterment of the republic and is not satisfied
> > with the empty rhetoric of politicians or the maintenance of the status quo.
> > True patriotism expresses itself through the heart and mind -- the quiet
> > voice of political truth.
>
> For the life of me I have no idea what you are blathering on about! First of
> all, what the heck would be the difference between "true patriotism" and
> "patriotism" Can one only be fully contemplated and realized by elitist snobs?
>
> Let me help you here:
>
> patriotism: the love and devotion of country
>
> How anyone expresses that is patriotism. Period. There is no such thing as
> "true patriotism" (I looked it up)
>
> But what you have defined so eloquently is a "liberal".
>
> It's all there:
>
> - Arrogance
> - Elitism
> - Intellectualism
> - Intolerance
> >
> > Every time I respond to stupid things about the U.S. or about our system of
> > government I am defending the republic and the ideals of our form of
> > government. Even when I defend these ideas from "insiders" I am defending
> > the republic -- and indeed, it may be even more important to defend the
> > republic from internal corrupting influences than to worry about imagined
> > threats from without.
> >
> > I don't wave the flag of the republic because it is not important to do so.
>
> Well, if *you* say so, then I guess it's true.
>
> > What is important is to defend with all my being everything that the
> > republic stands for. The flag cannot defend the republic, it is a mere
> > symbol -- an inanimate thing. I defend the republic with my mind, my heart,
> > and sometimes I have defended it with my body.
>
> How noble of you; how ignorant of those flag-wavers!
>
> So no, I do not wave the flag
> > or make much of my patriotism to others because I would rather it actually
> > meant something more than shaking a symbolic piece of cloth with a pretty
> > pattern on it -- I save my energies for the things that matter.
>
> >
> > Some people are content to be patriotic once a year -- today. They shout in
> > the streets. They wave the flag. They blow up things. They advertise to
> > others their pretended patriotism. They have no idea what they are doing.
>
> But you do.
>
> > Patriotism cannot be taught or learned by rote. One must find it for
> > oneself -- with the same difficulty as when one mines for gold.
>
> Well, you got me there-- never mined the stuff.
>
> One drop of
> > political truth will cost you ten drops of blood.
>
> Is this some new currency to battle the Euro that I haven't heard about yet?
> >
> > I am patriotic every day in all the ways that matter, and I remain silent on
> > the one day when my silence cannot matter to the din of fireworks in the
> > streets. I know which kind of patriotism matters the most. True patriotism
> > is not the fury of discordant noises in the streets, it is the carefully
> > reasoned political loyalty to ideas learned with the heart and mind.
> >
> > It was my habit for some years to read The Declaration of Independence and
> > the U.S. Constitution every 4th of July. Better you should do that today,
> > John, than to worry about what I think about patriotism.
>
> Well, it's just as I suspected. The fact is, you hate America-- you can't even
> *write* the word-- you feel the need to use the term "Republic" instead. Your
> convoluted and twisted definition of "patriotism" is classic-- it's so amazing
> how much alike intellectuals think-- talk about the tyranny of groupthink!
>
> Your utter contempt of your fellow Americans and your country is sickening
> (your pseudo-intellectual psychobabble notwithstanding). Your complete lack of
> gratitude for those who would defend your right to believe they are ignorant
> inconsequentials is staggering.
>
> Patriotism is about expressing your love of your country with your fellow
> countrymen next to you. It's not some BS intellectual exercise in your head.
> It's about coming together as a people, realizing your commonalities, and
> saying to them, in essence, I am willing to die for your freedom, and I don't
> even know you. That's powerful stuff. It's about profound gratitude-- that
> there are Americans who are in harm's way who are dying for your freedom, even
> today.
>
> And it's about a deep appreciation for what we have and what we are.
>
> But liberals in this country hate what we are-- why, we're "ugly Americans"!
> Europe hates us-- we must be bad! So of course you have a problem with
> patriotism, and of course you would rationalize your shame of being American
> into some bizarre, elitist definition of it. So transparent. So wrong.
> >
> > BTW, that mote you have been staring at in my eye reads "pathemata mathemata."
>
> I'm sure that means something really profound. Reminded me of Ed Rooney: "Les
> jeux son fait"
>
> -John
--
Tom Stangl
***http://www.vfaq.com/
***DSM Visual FAQ home
***http://ba.dsm.org/
***SF Bay Area DSMs
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