Subject:
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Re: Does it pay to be a Patriot?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Tue, 5 Feb 2002 02:28:51 GMT
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Viewed:
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357 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Kirby Warden writes:
> Are the Patriots just a bunch of "conspiracy freaks", or are they what The
> People should strive to be... Freemen?
Well, they certainly want to be freemen, one of the 22 enumerated statuses
of persons in the U.S. Constitution, and that is a worthy goal. But...
Patriots, as both you and the govt. call them, are probably a very
misunderstood group. Many of their ideas are dead on, and they are
absolutely correct about 80-90% of what they teach. The danger is that many
of these groups tend to be Xtians (all ways a negative in my book),
paranoid, militaristic (one cannot really blame them, mind you), and the
worst of the bunch tend to be xenophobic, and white supremacists as well.
I'd like to assert that it is only the negative qualities that have made
these group a possible terrorist target for the Federal govt., but I
actually believe that their political views are more at issue and what the
federal govt. is actually worried about. It's a strange mix to be sure, and
I would tend to avoid any direct involvement in any of these patriot group's
more obviously extreme and erroneous ideas -- I would also abstain from any
direct socializing with such groups because of the aforementioned problem
they have been having and will continue to have with the federal govt. That
said, it's worth mentioning that there's a bunch of political, legal stuff
that they understand pretty well and have almost exactly right.
In brief, the things they understand correctly, at least in part, are:
1. There is a collapse in the checks and balance system. The branches of
govt. seem to act more in accord with one another than to be acting as any
significant checks against one another. This might be a political
perspective that is purely opinion, but I think its true.
2. The common law no longer exists at the federal level and everything is
dealt with within a framework of equity and administrative law. For
example, when you fight with the IRS, all the procedures leading up to
appeals or possible law suits tends to be administrative in nature. Even
Tax Court is a perfectly okay thing under this set-up. The whole trick is
to argue your way back into something akin to a common law situation where
you might actually stand a chance...
3. For any number of obvious reasons, we are not living under a strictly
constitutional govt. There are many things stipulated in the Constitution
that are clearly nothing to do with the system we are living under today. A
simple reading of the Constitution will reveal this simple fact. The only
difficulty in reading the Constitution is to be careful of correctly
following the way clauses are joined in several very lengthy passages. This
is what might seem to be a problem of what might be called legal "mumbo
jumbo" but it's not -- the writers are just trying to succinctly enumerate
several linked ideas at once.
4. I would contend that the Constitution suggests strong state powers joined
in a Federal system for the purposes of a common monetary system, to
regulate trade amongst the states and with extra-national entities, and to
provide for a common defense in times of war. These goals would be achieved
by the three branches of govt. at the federal level. That's pretty much all
the federal govt. should be doing. Obviously, it is doing a great deal more
than just those few simple things. Today, the federal govt. is more like a
hydra-headed monster than a streamlined glue joining the several states.
5. Our current political system has more in common with socialism and
communism than with the democratic republican form of govt. stipulated in
the Constitution. Read the "Manifesto of the Communist Party" (it always
being a good idea to read the source works of political theory -- who knows
but that you might agree with ideas in opposition to the political system of
the U.S.?) which provides, in part, the following 10 point agenda:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to
public purposes.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralization of credit in the banks of the state, by means of a
national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralization of the means of communication and transport in he hands of
the state.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state;
the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the
soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
8. Equal obligation of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies,
especially for agriculture.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual
abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable
distribution of the populace over the country.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of
children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with
industrial production, etc.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Anyway, I think one could have all of these problems thanks to one's own
countrymen -- without any need for xenophobia, excessive build-up of arms,
or even white supremacist theory.
My further advice would be to read with interest and perhaps even
enthusiasm, recognizing that a critical eye for BS is mandatory in reading
the work of "patriots." I would keep a 1000 yard distance from some of
their worst aspects, to be sure. And if I couldn't be bothered to
cross-reference my own sources, I wouldn't bother to do the previous things
in the first place. One cannot learn anything if one will not do the work
for oneself.
Patriots are probably well-intentioned inasmuch as they seem to believe that
things can be turned around for the better. I maintain a more jaundiced
view of things. I think the Second Law of Thermodynamics now applies to
politics in the U.S.
Entropy, a measure of disorder, wins when organisms cease to take in energy
and die.
-- Hop-Frog
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Message is in Reply To:
 | | Does it pay to be a Patriot?
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| I've been reading a lot about supposed infringements on civil liberties lately. It doesn't require a significant search to find a site highlighting an "infringement" that most citizens are ignorant of. I find much of the subject matter to be over my (...) (22 years ago, 4-Feb-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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