Subject:
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Re: "MOC" Blacksmith Shop on lego.com
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Tue, 18 Dec 2001 05:32:15 GMT
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Viewed:
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6011 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Allan Bedford writes:
> > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Richie Dulin writes:
> > > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Allan Bedford writes:
> > > I wasn't comparing piece counts, I was comparing building styles. But since
> > > you brought it up, and to be fair, let's compare it to something else.
> > >
> > > Try this one [to compare the Jack Stone police station to]:
> > >
> > > http://guide.lugnet.com/set/370
> >
> > Deja vu! That set has more than double the pieces of the Jack Stone set -
> > it's not a valid comparison.
>
> Richie...
>
> For whatever reason, you seem to latch onto one or more specific notions and
> ignore other parts of my argument in order to make your point.
I have “latched onto…specific notions” because I believe your arguments are
flawed or contradictory.
> The above is
> a perfect example. I have already stated that I was NOT comparing piece
> counts.
But on what basis do you think it is a valid comparison… that they are two
LEGO sets which are police stations? Why not throw the Duplo and Fabuland
equivalents in?
> Please go back, review what I said and then make a point. But
> please do not snip my original comments,
Nothing snipped in this post. The snipping was purely to make for a shorter
post and nothing contentious was intentionally left out.
> and turn my words around just to
> try and make me look silly.
Not to make you look silly, but to point out flaws and contradictions.
> I'm not cutting out any of your words.
> Please... if you're going to debate, then be fair about it. I really do
> respect your opinions, I only ask that you respect mine.
>
> > [snip]
> > > > I'm in Australia. We have S@H now, although I thought we would never see it.
> > > > We wanted it, and LEGO delivered it, and now I support S@H. Delivery is
> > > > expensive, true. Selection isn't as wide as it might be, true. But I can
> > > > live with that. Things are getting better, and I think they'll continure to
> > > > get better.
> > >
> > > And I support the way in which you support LEGO. For me, it's a decision of
> > > a different flavor. I chose to NOT support the company financially, but
> > > instead to work for hours each week online to try and raise issues that
> > > others seem too shy to talk about.
> >
> > ...or others disagree about.
>
> Yes. You are 100% correct. Please let me make one thing perfectly clear.
> I am not asking any one to agree with me. If you do, great. If not, that's
> just fine. I don't pretend to represent any views other than my own.
>
> > > I'm not afraid of annoying someone at
> > > LEGO for the simple reason that I am the customer.
> >
> > Except that you're not a customer of S@H. And not a major customer of the
> > rest of LEGO either.
>
> You're probably right. I guess the 50 - 60,000 bricks (all bought in the
> last 3 years) that represent my new collection (completely separate from my
> childhood collection) really doesn't qualify as a "major customer".
I’m sorry, I didn’t realise you were that large a customer, you’ve certainly
acquired more bricks than me. I’d inferred from your posts that you hadn’t
purchased much recently.
> But
> then I never pretended to be. I am, however, a customer no matter how you
> wish to define it. I am not doing anything other than making serious
> suggestions to the company about ways in which they can manufacture products
> that I would enjoy buying. If this doesn't make me a "major customer" then
> so beit. But I don't think it makes me a bad customer.
>
> > [snip]
> >
> > > If you want to buy sets, then buy them, but don't be afraid to keep
> > > telling them what you want next. If it wasn't for people calling for
> > > bulk sales and reissues, then how much of what's available to you today
> > > would be available?
> >
> > > > But they're not... there's great stuff available.
> > >
> > > Again, everyone has a right to their opinion. I certainly respect yours.
> >
> > I'm not sure you do - you've invited me to "join the revolution" and
> > "express alternative views"...
>
> I invited you. How rude of me.
>
> But I've learned my lesson. Next time, no invitation for Richie. ;)
>
> > > > You didn't agree or disagree with my summation: you want better designs and
> > > > better brick selections, but when LEGO makes them available, they're too
> > > > expensive for you?
> > >
> > > Sorry, didn't realize that I was under oath. ;)
> > >
> > > I disagree with your summation. Because it's not complete.
> > >
> > > I want better designs, better bricks selections AND better prices.
> >
> > Don't we all? I just think that LEGO is addressing the better designs and
> > better bricks selections, and the prices are not unreasonable...
>
> As I've said. You are entitled to your opinion. By all means, post a
> message to the Dear-LEGO newsgroup and tell them how pleased you are with
> things. I'm not trying to suppress your opinion.
No, I think you’re putting forward an alternative view, which isn’t
supported by facts.
>
> > > My dream is to walk into my local Zellers (or a Wal-Mart, I'm not fussy) and
> > > see something akin to the 30th anniversary buckets on the shelves again.
> > > Back then (only 3 years ago) I funneled a great deal of my disposable income
> > > towards the LEGO company.
> >
> > But that's nothing to do with set design...
>
> I agree. Where did I write that assorted buckets of bricks had anything to
> do with set design. These are really two separate issues Richie, please
> stop trying to cram them into one. You are again taking statements I make
> about one issue and applying them the other. I invite you to disagree with
> me. However I would ask that you stop trying to manipulate my postings in
> attempts to make your arguments appear more valid.
I don’t think they are entirely separate issues. I don’t think it’s fair to
say that you’ll only buy sets for good designs, and you’ll buy bricks/parts
in buckets. If a set contains good parts, and you’re prepared to buy parts,
why not buy the set for the parts?
> > > But today I can't find anything fun or
> > > interesting to buy. Is this MY fault?
> >
> > Maybe... there is a wide product range.... I think that most people can find
> > one or two things they like in it...
>
> I agree. But then, I'm not most people. ;)
>
> > > Am I really asking too much?
> >
> > You may well be.
>
> But as I've pointed out before and I will again... it never hurts to ask.
> Do you think LEGO Direct's product mandate came about simply because someone
> in Billund had a hankering to open a new division?
>
> > > In fact, in this case I'm only asking for something that's already been done!
> > > Not even something new.
> >
> > But didn't you say "Just because something has always been your traditional
> > best sellers doesn't mean you should focus on them to the exclusion of new
> > ideas"?
>
> Exactly. You are almost always right Richie, but you are still trying to
> make me look wrong. Let me clarify.
>
> I am saying I want to see buckets and tubs in the stores again. But no
> where, no where at all did I say that this should be to the exclusion of
> other products. Did you read that somewhere? If you did, I didn't say it.
No, I don’t think you said that – and I don’t think that I said that you
said that.
My point was that you said they should be trying new things (except
Bionicle!), but that you also said that they should be doing the old things.
>
> > To me it seems you want to have your cake and eat it too. You want new
> > designs, but old pieces; you want interesting sets, and you want increased
> > brick availability; you want new ideas, but you don't want Bionicles or Jack
> > Stone. And you want it all for less money.
>
> Hey, now you're really starting to understand me.
I might be accurately summing up your view, but I won’t claim to understand you.
>
> > I'm not saying don't criticize the company. Be fair in your criticism and
> > comparison. Acknowledge the progress they are making.
>
> Which parts of my criticism do you find to be unfair?
Your police station comparison
Your rejection of Bionicle as a good thing
Your rejection of sets of good design on the basis of price
Your rejection of the availability of Lego Direct on the basis of price
>
> > > I'm just begging a company who has already produced a product that I
> > > liked to make more.
> >
> > I hope you're successful - it'd be good to see some 30th Anniversary Buckets
> > in Australia. Just not to the exclusion of good new stuff.
>
> Richie... you're doing it again. Look at your last sentence. Those are
> your words, not mine. Please... "Be fair in your criticism"
>
> I'm willing to debate you on any LEGO-related topic Richie. But if you are
> simply going to snip out large chunks of my comments,
This post is awfully long. The snipping and adding bracketed summaries in
earlier posts was purely to make for a shorter post and nothing contentious
was intentionally left out.
> only to replace them
> with versions of statements that are not really my words,
I think whenever I snipped and added bracketed comments I preserved the
spirit of what you were saying. I’m sorry if that wasn’t the result . (Which
replacements did you think were misleading?)
> then I really
> can't take the time to continue replying to your posts.
>
> All the best.
>
> Play well, play fair.
Play with LEGO!
Cheers
Richie Dulin
PS Did you notice the latest announcement wasn’t on a Friday?
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: "MOC" Blacksmith Shop on lego.com
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| We now return you to your regularly scheduled debate, already in progress. (...) Richie... I think we're getting somewhere. :) I'm sorry to come off sounding so verbally heavy-handed in my last post, but I really felt like our 'debate' was disolving (...) (23 years ago, 19-Dec-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: "MOC" Blacksmith Shop on lego.com
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| (...) Well, hate to burst your bubble, but 50-60K bricks in 3 years DOESN'T put you in the "major customer" bracket. That's a drop in the ocean. Some people around here have bought that many bricks (or more) in ONE DAY. And even that won't begin to (...) (23 years ago, 28-Dec-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: "MOC" Blacksmith Shop on lego.com
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| (...) Richie... For whatever reason, you seem to latch onto one or more specific notions and ignore other parts of my argument in order to make your point. The above is a perfect example. I have already stated that I was NOT comparing piece counts. (...) (23 years ago, 18-Dec-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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