Debate : 14672


Off-Topic / Debate / 14672	14671 \| 14673

Subject:	Re: One of my issues with the god of the old testament
Newsgroups:	lugnet.off-topic.debate
Date:	Thu, 15 Nov 2001 19:50:40 GMT
Viewed:	827 times

In lugnet.off-topic.debate, James Simpson writes: > God by no means has created morality. By no means does Absolute Ultimate > Goodness (whatever that may be) receive its definition by God. God could no > sooner make objectively evil good than he could create a square circle. > God may do all things that can be done, but he may not do the absurd. Hmm. One of the long-standing concepts of God is "greater-than-which-nothing-can-be-thought." That is, of course, a formulation of the ontological argument and is therefore insufficient to prove His existence, but let's assume it (those of us who don't already believe it). Having said that, a being that can do the absurd is greater than a being that cannot, so I would think God *can* do the logically impossible; in fact, if He's the ultimate being, he *must* be able to do the logically impossible. Actually, for my interest, the accomplishment of the logically impossible is a pretty good definition of a miracle. I'm not sure I understood your notion of the source of morality, except that you state that God didn't create it, and that confuses me. Didn't He create everything? And is He or isn't He subject to it? If He is, then we're back to something greater than God. If He's not, then we're back to how do we know He's good? > > Whether God created morality or not, is He subject to it? That is, if He > > is not subject to morality, I am unable to imagine how one can conclude that > > He is good, except by faith. > > Oh, he absolutely is. Well, okay. But why? And how do we know? I don't mean in a Euthyphro-ish way, but where does He stand in relation to morality? And on what basis to we judge? > > I was 10), but I've noticed your quotes by [Lewis] on several occasions. > > Yes, I've been much influenced by Saint Jack. His writing is tremendously accessible and is a good starting point for those seeking to articulate their beliefs, but I think he sometimes relies too much on questionable analogies and false dichotomies. But at least he's readable! Dave!

Message has 2 Replies:

		Re: One of my issues with the god of the old testament
(...) Just jumping in for James, my guess is that he'd say that it's akin to mathematics. God can't suddenly make 1==2 or 3+9=234. Humans "invented" the basic rules mathematics, and the rest is true based on those rules, no matter what. To take away (...) (23 years ago, 15-Nov-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

		Re: One of my issues with the god of the old testament
(...) Any of us can construct nonsensical statements. How big is yellow? A square circle. 2+2=5. Whatever. How can any being do the logically impossible? That which our imaginations may conceive cannot be the standard which a Greater Being must (...) (23 years ago, 16-Nov-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Message is in Reply To:

		Re: One of my issues with the god of the old testament
(...) I propose that human moral awareness is self-evident from the fact that all non- intellectually or emotionally impaired humans for as long as we have record have possessed an innate belief, sense, and faculty for moral calculus. So yes, my (...) (23 years ago, 15-Nov-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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