Subject:
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Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Thu, 8 Jul 1999 13:43:40 GMT
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Viewed:
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1355 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek writes:
>
> Because they have no say in whats done and aren't getting their money's
> worth? As long as public schools have a monopoly on tax dollars and
> sending your kids to a competitive private school means you pay twice,
> of course voters are going to turn down millage, it's the ONLY way they
> have of expressing their displeasure.
That may be your reason or your idea of why people school tax levies down. I
disagree. People vote down tax levies simply because they do no want to pay
taxes.
> > 2. Lack of parental guidance. Few parents take an active involvement in the
> > children's schooling. Too many view it as a day time baby sitter. The same
> > schools that produce undereducated children produce well educated children.
> > Explain the difference - parental involvement.
>
> True. However public schools make it very very hard to be involved for
> someone who works. I know, I speak from bitter experience on this.
Is it any easier to be involved in a private school for someone who works?
Sorry that's a copout.
> Not all teachers are that way, and not all schools are. Many parents
> make the effort despite repeated rejection. My wife, who has the luxury
> of being able to stay home and give care full time, unlike so many
> families in which both parents have to work thanks to high taxes, is a
> vigorous and effective participant in activities in our current school,
> she's been a room mother, served on the cultural arts committee, planned
> and executed "arts in the park" day, worked to get Noah's Ark murals
> removed from school, and is VP of the elementary PTA.
Glad to hear that you and your wife are involved. But I'd be very interested
to know how your children's classmates are doing. I would predict that your
children are doing quite well while those children whose parents are not
involved are not doing well. All the chilrednin the room are receiving the
same education - some are simply taking advantage of it while others are not.
> > Even worse is the attitude that came about in the 80's - this was actually
> > stated to me by a student - "my parents pay taxes to pay your salary - I • don't
> > have to do a thing you tell me". If this is the amount of respect instilled • by
> > parents, we are in very deep trouble down the road.
>
> Agreed. That student had a warped sense of how to communicate. What he
> SHOULD have been saying was "My parents pay taxes to pay your salary -
> therefore they should have some say as to how their money is spent.
> Since they don't, and you're teaching me nonsense I can't use, I'm not
> going to pay attention, I'm going to study my calculus instead, I have a
> bridge to build some day"
Interesting assumption to make since you do not know what I taught. I taught
instrumental music to 5th and 6th graders. It was an elective - they did not
have to take instrumental music. In fact, they were not permitted to take
instrumental music unless they had their parents permission.
> > Look up homeless statistics. You will find an increase in homelessness at • the
> > same time as social services were cut by Reagan.
>
> [snip] Since we
> didn't measure for that previously, and since we changed how we measured
> it, and since we had a somewhat misguided "empty the asylums, let's
> mainstream everyone" policy, an increase in numbers is not too
> surprising.
Well, as you refuse to accept statistics as fact I won't bother persueing the
point.
>
> Half my family works for GM too, so don't bother trying the argument
> from authority ploy. By the way, auto workers are NOT laid off during
> shutdown, at least not in Michigan, see below.
Well maybe not in Michigan, but they certainly are in Ohio.
> Yearly shutdown is a known, predictable phenomena just like teacher's
> summer vacation. It clearly should be planned for and in tomorrow's
> world, a planned shutdown won't be a cause for eligibility under most
> insurance plans, only the high premium ones.
In your predicted idealistic future maybe, but certainly not the real future.
You can spout predictions are you want. I'm dealing in realities.
> Anecdotal evidence, sure, but I have lots of anecdotes like that.
As do I, but that's why I'm in NYC and my family is in Ohio. :')
> This "auto workers should get unemployment while on planned shutdown" is
> just ridiculous. The notion that you KNOW something is going to happen
> and you shouldn't have to plan for it is evil.
Why is it evil? Why is it evil to put money into unemployment and then expect
to collect when you're laid off. Isn't that THE PLAN. That's like saying that
you can't put money into an IRA and expect to collect that money later. Sorry,
its totally illogical.
> > > > Society created
> > > > those that cannot obtain their own posessions.
> > >
> > > What? Please point me to such a person. Society did no such thing.
> >
> >
> > Really, let's see, Lincoln freed the slaves. The south segregated its • schools
> > and refused equal rights to housing. If it wasn't socity, then who did • this?
>
> Refusing equal rights to housing is an individual decision, not a
> societal one. Go after the individuals. Don't tar me with that brush, I
> wasn't born yet, and my parents weren't here yet. However, I have no
> issue with declining to do business with an individual for any reason or
> no reason whatsoever. I have a right to do as I see fit with my
> property.
Sorry, but as long as society allows it to occur, it is a societal problem. In
another post you stated that the Libertarians would not allow discremination.
Yet above you say "I have no issue with declining to do business with an
individual for any reason or no reason whatsoever. I have a right to do as I
see fit with my property". You can't have it both ways.
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