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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Jason J. Railton writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler writes:
> > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Jason J. Railton writes:
> >
> > > It sickens me to see an act committed by a few evil individuals taken as
> > > justification for initiating a war.
> >
> > You're gerrymandering the facts, either deliberately or otherwise. The
> > attack on US soil was itself an act or war, and if bin Laden is indeed
> > responsible, he himself declared war on the US long ago. If the US responds
> > to his declaration by likewise declaring war, that's hardly "initiating a war."
> > Further, war would not be declared upon a few evil individuals but rather
> > upon the nations knowingly harboring a multinational band of known thugs and
> > murderers, as well as the thugs and murderers themselves.
>
> Declarations of war come from nations, not from individuals. His
> declaration of war against the US was his own posturing. He does not
> represent his country, as the actions of the IRA do not represent theirs.
And the Barbary Pirates did not represent any particular country but the US
nevertheless declared war on them and dealt with them, quite effectively. If
we should decide to make the symbolic act of declaring war on terrorism, it
will be the same thing. Countries would be involved only if they (as the
thugs at the helm of much of Afghanistan seem to have done) harbor terrorists.
> > > The fight against terrorism will not be won overnight, nor with a single
> > > military strike, nor by blaming everyone else. Find another way.
> >
> > No one is blaming everyone else; the US is blaming those individuals who
> > conceived and planned this attack, as well as the nations providing
> > sanctuary to them.
>
> And this is exactly my point. Let's do this line by line...
>
> > No one is blaming everyone else;
>
> Good...
>
> > the US is blaming those individuals who conceived and planned this attack,
>
> Marvellous...
>
> > as well as the nations providing sanctuary to them.
>
> Now, here's the issue. Why would they provide sanctuary? Because each
> citizen is planning similar attacks? Because they support and fund anti-US
> agression? Because they don't happen to sympathise with the US? Or because
> they feel they'll be damned[1] if they're going to hand anyone over to the US?
I'm sorry, I am struggling a bit with your inability to understand what
providing sanctuary means. If the Taliban is giving bin Laden facilities,
materiel, and allowing him to come and go as he pleases, how exactly is that
not "providing sanctuary"? They say they are the government of Afghanistan.
Are you saying that they are not? Great. Let's get with the real government
and round them up too. (perhaps we can put them on trial for the crime of
destroying priceless works of art if we can't think of anything else).
But if they ARE the government they are in fact giving sanctuary. Their
little government needs to be disassembled and the afghan people given a
chance to determine their own fate, free from religious shackles.
Dealing with nests of snakes sometimes requires cutting a bit of underbrush
away to get at the snakes...
++Lar
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: War
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| (...) "SANCTUARY: place of safety for a fugitive". Yes, they are providing sanctuary. My point is that that in itself does not make them a legitimate target. The Afghan government do not need to provide anything material for bin Laden; he has enough (...) (23 years ago, 13-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: War
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| (...) Declarations of war come from nations, not from individuals. His declaration of war against the US was his own posturing. He does not represent his country, as the actions of the IRA do not represent theirs. (...) And this is exactly my point. (...) (23 years ago, 13-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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