Subject:
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Re: A question of remembrance...
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Mon, 30 Apr 2001 16:44:22 GMT
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Viewed:
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797 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Arthur writes:
> Or are you saying that this is not true:
> "Turkey and Israel are "free to take care of it". However, both have a
> history of ignoring human rights and murdering civilians in the process."
Okay, let's assume this is true. It probably is.
My question is: so what?
Who comes to the table with clean hands? When it comes time to talk of
peace there is usually blood on all sides. No side is innocent. No side is
able to speak from a standpoint of complete rightousness. To make peace you
have to respect the voices of all concerned -- even if they are the
terrorists or murderers. At some point everyone has to agree to stop the
violence, or peace is impossible.
BTW, as to the other undying part of this thread about the EU. I think I
must agree with your opponent -- if there was money in it, concerns for
human rights would go out the window and any country would be accepted in.
Frankly, if it weren't for the fact that every country was already
economically in bed with the Nazis they might not have achieved the means
and the power to cause what is known as WW II nor the many other atrocities
they had a significant hand in.
What's more, Scott, you seem to come at people from the perspective that you
can take them personally to task for the actions of their respective
countries, and this is more than unfair. Everyone is a product of their
circumstances and their culture. I expect that somewhere in the world
someone is being eradicated for the sake of the U.S. -- but you know what?
Nobody consulted me in this decision, so if it is made on my behalf, it is
also made without my consent or approval.
Pointing the accusatory finger is SO not as cool as waving the olive branch
of peace -- and it achieves a possible good only by accident or but very
obliquely.
Your arguments are too heavy with Ethos And Logos, and lack any Pathos. Is
it your opinion that wars go on and on because people are thinkly about
their cultural values or the veracity of their position? I figure they are
thinking with their hearts -- angry and hurt and seeking payback. You can't
talk to wars with logic...it simply has nothing to do with it!
At some point someone has to think and say something like: "You killed my
daughter, and I am angry and hurt -- but I have come to talk of peace and
not of justice. Both sides share in the common guilt of bringing death to
the other side. Now it is time to talk of life -- of our lives together in
this part of the world." And this person has their hand out in the most
generous gesture possible from their experience as a human being -- they are
probably setting aside their every blood instinct to kill in order to
champion peace and non-violence. And that is no small feat, it is
emotionally an internal cataclysm. It is an earthquake that shatters
souls...and I stand in awe and enormous respect for anyone that can make
this world-saving move.
-- Richard
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: A question of remembrance...
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| (...) My point was that perhaps they “should take care of it” without torture etc. (...) As I understand it, to join, Turkey would have to bring its legislation in line with that of the EU. (...) Appearances can be deceptive ;-) (...) I agree. But (...) (24 years ago, 30-Apr-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: A question of remembrance...
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| (...) Where the fault is split 60-40 I think you're right. But what if the fault is almost all on one side? (it's not 60-40 in this case but it's not 99-1 either, so this is a hypothetical, I want to know what you think) What then? I come from the (...) (24 years ago, 30-Apr-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: A question of remembrance...
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| (...) Richard did not rebuff me. He only gave the fact I quoted some context. Or are you saying that this is not true: "Turkey and Israel are "free to take care of it". However, both have a history of ignoring human rights and murdering civilians in (...) (24 years ago, 29-Apr-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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