Subject:
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Patterned parts and printing artifacts
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.cad.dat.parts
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Date:
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Fri, 13 Sep 2002 05:11:02 GMT
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Viewed:
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1253 times
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I recently had the following exchange with SEB and CD who allowed me to post
their responses to my questions. I welcome comments from others on this
topic. Thanks!
Larry said:
> Please take a look at these scans and give me some advice if you would.. I
> have left the scans larger around the edges than what I use as background
> so that you can see some of the context. The questions have to do with
> registration and centering. I only have one copy of some of these figs so
> can't compare one against the other.
>
> My scanner isn't the best, it's high res but kind of cheap and it
> introduced the rainbowing unfortunately...
>
> igor/hunchback:
> http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=242286 or
> http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/lar/LDraw/partsImages/igorrough.gif
>
> I am assuming that the black is misregistered and that I should move the
> black somewhat to the left as it then would cover the green up, as well as
> the white. Is that correct? Or should there be white visible on the left of
> the black rope outline in the belt knot? Also what should I used for the
> black halftoning/dithering? dither black and grey together? Can you dither
> a color and "maincolor" together? I assume not.
>
> vampire:
> http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/lar/LDraw/partsImages/vampirerough.gif
>
> The vampire torso has white on one side of the buttons and black on the
> other... is that deliberate or is it misregistered? The coat lines are off
> center as are teh buttons and the gold bars(?) that connect them.
>
> Also on re-reflection maybe the colors here are yellow and red, not maroon
> and gold. Does red darken on black torsos typically?
>
> The sound guy:
> http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/lar/LDraw/partsImages/soundmanrough.gif
>
> He seems wildly offcenter, look at his belt. Should I assume it needs to be
> centered and adjust accordingly?
>
> (the scanner image of this torso is a bit oblique because it was off center
> on the scanner glass, but the torso itself was flush to the glass sides,
> that's not why the belt is offset.)
>
> The more general question is this, should I assume these parts printing is
> misaligned and misregistered and idealise the images to fit my sensibility?
> Or model them exactly as scanned?
Steve replied:
> Please take a look at these scans and give me some advice if you would..
Sure. I don't have any of these parts (yet...), but I'll put in my two
cents. And Chris has modeled many more patterned parts than I have, so
he'd have more informed opinions. But I won't let that stop me.
> igor/hunchback:
> http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=242286 or
> http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/lar/LDraw/partsImages/igorrough.gif
>
> I am assuming that the black is misregistered and that I should move the
> black somewhat to the left as it then would cover the green up, as well
> as the white. Is that correct?
I'd say you are correct. The black is misregistered.
> Or should there be white visible on the
> left of the black rope outline in the belt knot?
No, I don't think there should be any white outside the black outline.
> Also what should I used for the black halftoning/dithering? dither
> black and grey together?
Yeah, I'd probably dither black and dark gray.
(but I thought you were going to model all the dots? ;)
> Can you dither a color and "maincolor" together? I assume not.
Nope, can't do that. That would be a cool extension, though. And would
be very handy in this case. That would be, let's see now, that would be
colors 512-527. Maybe someday...
> http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/lar/LDraw/partsImages/vampirerough.gif
Hey! Now we can make an Adam Ant minifig! ;)
Here's a hard question: are the black details printed on? I don't think
they are, but it kinda looks like maybe they are.
Then again, it almost looks like there are two layers of white. Probably
it's just that the white lines got smudged.
I'm totally guessing here, but I think they printed the white first, then
put the red on top and finally the yellow. The red was designed to allow
the white to show through around the buttons.
> The vampire torso has white on one side of the buttons and black on the
> other... is that deliberate or is it misregistered?
I think that's deliberate. And probably designed to be look reasonably
good, even when the printing is misregistered. ;)
> The coat lines are
> off center as are teh buttons and the gold bars(?) that connect them.
Yes, I think the whole pattern is shifted to the left, and it would be
reasonable to center - unless that would push the bloody handkerchief off
the right edge.
The yellow printing might be set high - the black shadows around the
buttons are really large.
I think the red and white printing are fairly well aligned with each
other. First, looking at the top left (as you look at the torso) corner,
the white and red are aligned vertically. Second, the white lines in the
left wingtip collar have fairly uniform thickness. Finally, still looking
at that same wingtip, the black point has straight edges going through the
red and white regions (which prompted my question about whether the black
was overprinted or not).
> Also on re-reflection maybe the colors here are yellow and red, not
> maroon and gold. Does red darken on black torsos typically?
From the scan, it looks like red and yellow. Compare the red to the
generic Town leather-jacket / red shirt torso, 973p28. The yellow/gold
question is basically an issue of whether the printing is metallic or not.
> The sound guy
>
> http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/lar/LDraw/partsImages/soundmanrough.gif
>
> seems wildly offcenter, look at his belt. Should I assume it needs to be
> centered and adjust accordingly?
Yes.
> The more general question is this, should I assume these parts printing
> is misaligned and misregistered and idealise the images to fit my
> sensibility?
> Or model them exactly as scanned?
I'd say you should model according to (your interpretation of) the
intentions of the lego designers.
Chris replied as well:
This is obviously one of the failings of working from a scan - less chance
for applying common sense. I often make assumptions about colour
registration to make the part look more like I assume TLC wanted it to.
Sadly, colour registration seems to be getting worse.
This has to be a judgement call by you as the author. To some extent all
parts and patterns are an interpretation of what exists in real life, and
indeed this is part of the skill of an author - deciding what is important
to represent exactly and what can have some leeway. The final test is how
much comment your assumptions raise from the reviewers. I remember in the
past we used to have an understanding that detail less than 1LDu did not
need to be modelled, but with increasingly complex and detailed patterns
this seems to have been revised - but I still don't routinely represent any
detail less than 0.5LDu. I remember simplifying the detail on the throat of
the Riding Jacket torso, only to receive adverse comment about the
representation of tiny black pin. In the end I recoded it, but there are
plenty of other patterns out there with similar simplifications.
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