Subject:
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Re: Why MSIE sucks for the HTML writer
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.admin.general
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Date:
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Sat, 18 Mar 2000 03:59:50 GMT
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Reply-To:
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cjc@newsguy.com=AntiSpam=
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Viewed:
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1567 times
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On Fri, 17 Mar 2000 21:26:36 GMT, Todd Lehman <lehman@javanet.com>
wrote:
> In lugnet.admin.general, Mike Stanley writes:
> > Ok. Do you have a form running now that demonstrates this inability in IE on
> > LUGNET?
>
> I called it "bug" because IMHO it is a User Interface bug. But yeah, more
> objectively, it is simply an "inability."
>
> Okie dokie, here ya go, here's a page with two forms... Type text in the
> boxes and hit Enter. If nothing happens when you hit Enter, it's a bug.
>
> http://www.lugnet.com/temp/form/msieieio.html
>
> Here's the document:
>
> <HTML><BODY>
> <FORM METHOD=GET ACTION="/">Form #1: <INPUT TYPE=TEXT NAME="q" VALUE=""></FORM>
> <FORM METHOD=GET ACTION="/">Form #2: <INPUT TYPE=TEXT NAME="q" VALUE=""></FORM> </BODY></HTML>
>
> Just tried this on MSIE3/Win32 and it failed. Tried MSIE4.5/MacOS and it
> worked. (One hand clapping.)
This works fine with IE5. So it isn't a bug, unless you define a bug
as something that didn't work 3 years ago. I'm sure we could find a
lot of things in older (or current) versions of Netscape that don't
work the way you or I want them to also.
> > Gotta admin, knowing your personal hatred for M$, these little "hey,
> > if you're using IE you may have a problem with this so complain to your vendor
> > but if you're using Netscape N/C you should be fine" announcements seem a
> > little silly sometimes.
>
> It's much more a profound professional disappointment than personal hatred.
> (I simply ignore MSIE altogether when I make personal pages.)
Well, you can call it that if you want to, but to me, as a user of
Lugnet, when I see the owner make announcements to the entire user
population, a great many of whom who probably use IE, that IE doesn't
work for something I think I'm hearing gospel from Todd, tech guru
supreme. What I'm actually hearing, though, is old news about a
version of IE that nobody (trust me, nobody is using pre IE4 version
anymore) uses. So you either sound misinformed (which you're not,
once you clarify that you're talking about IE3, but you didn't do that
in the announcement, just in followups once someone pointed out this
isn't a problem now) or you sound like you have an axe to grind, or
more accurately, a needle to poke.
Big deal - something doesn't work in IE3.
> MSIE is/was a clone of NN. It was an amazing feat what MS did back in 1995.
> But in the cloning process, MS flarged up quite a few things -- perhaps
> unintentionally, perhaps intentionally, but wrongly nevertheless.
It wasn't an amazing feat, and I thought MS actually licensed some
other browser or something - Mosaic, maybe? And maybe I'm getting my
history wrong, but wasn't NN actually a clone of Mosaic? IE _sucked_
until version 4. Anyone using pre 4 versions was a masochist. I'd
say the same about people using Communicator 4.x now, but at least it
does more than IE3, even if it crashes more.
> One of the bugs, for example, is that MSIE puts extra whitespace _past_ the
> border of a hyperlink image with a nonzero border. That is, it correctly
> draws the n-pixel border in <A HREF="..."><IMG BORDER=n ...></A> but then it
> also ridiculously adds _another_ n-pixels of border around that. :-/
>
> Another bug is the way the leading is handled between <UL></UL> and <P> in
> MSIE. (I can't remember the exact details, but NN got it right.)
>
> Antother (this one extremely braindead) bug is that MSIE sometimes likes to
> break lines of the form "foo&foo;foo" at the entity boundary. *WAY* wrong
> thing to do when the entity is ® or © -- or worse when it's a
> European letter.
Are these bugs in IE3 also? Or have you confirmed them with IE5 (or
at least 4)?
> Nah, I'm well aware that NN has quite a few problems also. What steams me
> is that MS made MSIE 99% but not 100% compatible with NN. "Embrace, extend,
> exterminate." Chairman Bill is only missing a monacle and a white cat. ;-)
Well, I hate to break it to you, but just like M$ was working hard to
make NT 4 play nice with Netware several years ago and now basically
doesn't care about it, M$ no longer really has to worry about doing
everything the NC does. In fact, in many ways many people will tell
you IE5 does things better than NN. I know the majority of the
problems that are reported to me from the labs at UTK that are
browser-related are problems with NN or NC not correctly rendering
this or that or calling this or that plugin (why does Netscape still
keep a separate association list?). Inevitably, things work fine in
IE.
--
Tired of waiting for LEGO Direct? Bulk Parts Sales NOW!
http://www.guarded-inn.com/lego/sales/parts.html
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: Why MSIE sucks for the HTML writer
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| (...) I said MSIE sometimes required the explicit button. I'm glad to hear that it's fixed in the recent versions, but MSIE3 is still in active use today. I'll be grinding some Netscape axes in a couple days too. :) --Todd (25 years ago, 18-Mar-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
| | | Re: Why MSIE sucks for the HTML writer
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| (...) It's a HUGE deal. You leave a search button off a form by accident (on a page with more than one form) and some poor user out there is up the creek without a paddle, and probably doesn't know why, or can't switch browsers. :-( (...) IMHO, it (...) (25 years ago, 18-Mar-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Why MSIE sucks for the HTML writer
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| (...) I called it "bug" because IMHO it is a User Interface bug. But yeah, more objectively, it is simply an "inability." Okie dokie, here ya go, here's a page with two forms... Type text in the boxes and hit Enter. If nothing happens when you hit (...) (25 years ago, 17-Mar-00, to lugnet.admin.general)
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