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In lugnet.admin.general, Timothy Gould wrote:
snip
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I’ve never stated that Eric is without fault. That’s actually the whole
jist of the ‘you’re better than this’--we all make mistakes, but we can all
‘get better’ and not make the same mistakes again. I’ve seen it in Eric.
He’s done it, hence I know that he’s better than this. Others dredging up
his past misdeeds (or even alluding to them) is the wrong way to get beyond
this.
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I’m sorry but I still feel that your choice to single out Eric as being
“better than this” was implying that others weren’t.
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That wasn’t my conscious intent at the beginning, but thinking about it
now--Others were provoking him. You’re right--they weren’t better than him.
Sorry if the truth hurts, but there the truth is--Some maliciousness was
directed at Eric--Eric responded. I pointed out that Eric can be better at his
responses. That’s what the intent of my original post on this matter was, but
others could have read it to be better regarding this matter themselves. What’s
wrong with that?
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Eric’s actions lately imply that he is in no way better than this. This
latest incident was started by Eric (off Lugnet). Thus there is current
evidence that he is not “better than this”. Only evidence that he is possible
“better than this on Lugnet”.
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I only have LUGNET to go by. I only hang out at LUGNET and LUGNET is where I
expend my on-line LEGO addictions. And here is where my responses are, and here
is where I have experienced all this issue. What happens elsewhere can be dealt
with elsewhere. As for here in this house, this is what we’re going by. You
can deal with Eric as you perceive him on other forums on the other forums.
Again, truth is that here and now, Eric’s been ‘a good guy’ (tm). So for
everyone--stop provoking him here. If you wanna go on about how bad he is
‘cause he’s bad *now* elsewhere, then do so *elsewhere*.
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Again, I’d never argue that Eric hasn’t misbehaved. I’ve been here on
LUGNET long enough to know that not many people are ‘without sin’ around
here. I’m not setting a precedent beyond the idea that pepole can, and
have, changed around here. Whether others see that is entirely up to them.
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Up until Eric’s recent actions I would have agreed that he had changed. He
has been astoundingly well behaved for the longest time I’ve ever seen him.
However his recent actions imply to me that he hasn’t changed at all except
that he is more sly about his behaviour and minimises the risk that he will
look bad on Lugnet.
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I cannot make judgememnts on things I’m not privvy to. Hell, of we use your
logic, then we have to look at *all* of Eric’s life, everywhere, to make our
judgements thereof. And if we look into every aspect of Eric’s life, then we
should logically and fairly look into our own lives as well. Glass houses
comes to mind--want people looking into every aspect of your life? I certainly
don’t want people to discover my extensive porn collection--oops, did I say that
out loud?
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--snip--
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If someone points out that his response to this latest issue was
over-the-top ‘officiously litigious’, then they are focusing on the wrong
part--the fact that it happened is the actual issue. How Eric responded to
is is parenthetical.
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--snip--
I’m sorry Dave but I disagree with you about this. Eric’s actions in
threatening Ross (and Rene) with legal action is an issue. It is not playing
nice to do this. What Ross did was probably wrong. What Eric did was probably
wrong.
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How we deal with issues is important. I called Eric on it by letting him know
that he can be better. I didn’t let him off the hook for it, and I didn’t
ignore it. I also didn’t go ‘flying off the handle’ because of it, either, and
Rene didn’t either. So are you speaking for Rene now?
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So again, who’s acting immature and who’s acting mature here? Again,
dredging up past transgressions isn’t relevant here
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You mentioned that a body of evidence existed that Eric was better than this,
I said a body of evidence existed that suggested he wasn’t. Since we can’t
see the future and the present has a very minimal body of evidence then we
both have to rely on the past for our evidence.
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The body of evidence *here* shows that he’s pretty good *here* *now*. I’m sorry
if you can’t see that. And I’m sorry that people like to provoke him *here*
that leads to these issues. I’m also sorry that I do tend to go on about it :)
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--snip--
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All this being said, I’m all for ‘fun’ at LUGNET.
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--snip--
And Eric has managed to kill that fun for an awful lot of people. It isn’t
one-sided and it isn’t solely Eric’s doing but the body of evidence is, as
Soren said, that he is not better than this.
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I’ve managed to have fun on LUGNET. Actually, I’ve managed to have fun with
almost everything that has happened on LUGNET through the years, no matter
‘how bad’ it’s gotten (going right back to the ‘community policing’--total
joy!) and I’ve never known Eric to infringe on the fun I’ve had here.
Sometimes, dare I say, Eric, by his sheer presense of ‘artistic being’, has
enhanced my time here. Rather than look at the guy’s faults and constantly
bringing them up at every opportunity (and I’m not saying that he won’t say
or do something to offend now or in the future) or poking at him whenever
you can--would you guys let him up off the carpet, please?
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It seems to me that you are bringing up the past to bolster your own evidence
but not allowing it to be used against it.
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Where did I ‘bolster’ my point from past evidence? I made a somewhat
parenthetical observation that my fun here at LUGNET is in no way diminished by
people I don’t like.
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Can we apply the ‘you are better than this’ expression to everyone involved?
I’d like to think so.
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Now I can certainly agree to that and had you said that in your first post I
would never have posted in this thread in the first place.
Tim
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So there we are.
Dave K
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: illogical behavior ;)
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| --snip-- I think this entire argument can be put down to a disagreement over what evidence is applicable to the use in the argument. I think you're as unlikely to convince me that your choices are valid as I am to convince you that mine are. We are (...) (18 years ago, 14-Feb-07, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
| | | Re: malicious behavior
|
| (...) You're doing a great job there, Dave. This is the sort of input that Lugnet's been sorely lacking since ++Lar abandonded the community. You just need to turn a few more catchphrases now and then and your transformation will be complete. (18 years ago, 14-Feb-07, to lugnet.off-topic.fun, FTX)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: malicious behavior
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| (...) I'm sorry but I still feel that your choice to single out Eric as being "better than this" was implying that others weren't. Eric's actions lately imply that he is in no way better than this. This latest incident was started by Eric (off (...) (18 years ago, 14-Feb-07, to lugnet.admin.general, FTX)
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