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In lugnet.trains, James Trobaugh writes:
> Has anyone tried using one of these new Dacta LEGO Capacitors on their
> trains? Seems like this would be a good way to keep the head lights bright
> even when the train slows down.
>
> "http://www.pldstore.com/pitsco2/finditem.cfm?itemid=303&orderid=ID62116482496358679"
How would you wire it so that it would only light the light? I would think
that it would try to drive the train at the same time...
Of course, that might be an interesting way to make the train more "speed
realistic" - it would gain speed more slowly since the capacitor would be
pulling power from the motor, and it would slow down more slowly since the
capacitor would be pushing power back into the motor.
IANAEE though... (I am not an electrical engineer!)
JohnG, GMLTC
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> Of course, that might be an interesting way to make the train more "speed
> realistic" - it would gain speed more slowly since the capacitor would be
> pulling power from the motor, and it would slow down more slowly since the
> capacitor would be pushing power back into the motor.
>
> IANAEE though... (I am not an electrical engineer!)
You'd have to use a diode. Trust me, it is very unlikely that the cap would be
able to deliver much in the way of power to drive the train (they only hold a
few joules of energy, not much when compared even with the speed of a Lego
train).
I think constant lighting is out for the same reasons, just not enough energy
density in the cap.
James
(IANAEE either, IAAME)
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oups!
don't try it or be very carefull.
the capacitor is a 1Farad 3Volts max capacitor.
that would limit the voltage that you can put your regulator at 3V. If you go
past that voltage, you'll end up blowing up your capacitor (quite a messy
situation with electrolytic capacitor). At that voltage the ligth will be
really dimmed.
so that suggestion will not work, sorry :-(
Martin
In lugnet.trains, James Powell writes:
>
> > Of course, that might be an interesting way to make the train more "speed
> > realistic" - it would gain speed more slowly since the capacitor would be
> > pulling power from the motor, and it would slow down more slowly since the
> > capacitor would be pushing power back into the motor.
> >
> > IANAEE though... (I am not an electrical engineer!)
>
> You'd have to use a diode. Trust me, it is very unlikely that the cap would • be
> able to deliver much in the way of power to drive the train (they only hold a
> few joules of energy, not much when compared even with the speed of a Lego
> train).
>
> I think constant lighting is out for the same reasons, just not enough energy
> density in the cap.
>
> James
> (IANAEE either, IAAME)
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there is some spec for the capacitor on TLC web site
http://www.lego.com/dacta/elab/default.htm
Specifications:
1 F (Farad) 2.5 volt electrolytic capacitor
Operating voltage 2.5 normal
Charging voltage maximum 4 volt
Maximum charging and discharging current 0-250 mA
Red LED indicator when fully charged at 2.5 volt
Protected against reverse polarity; capacitor will not fully charge
Charged to 2.5 V the capacitor will store about 3.125 J of energy
the regulator (I tested 2) have output voltage of 3.0-3.1 Volts on setting #1
and 4.2-4.3 volts on setting #2.
At 3Volts the ligth is not brigth at all.
the suggestion to use the capacitor was good but not working with that
capacitor, again sorry to bring bad news.
Martin
In lugnet.trains, Martin Legault writes:
> oups!
>
> don't try it or be very carefull.
>
> the capacitor is a 1Farad 3Volts max capacitor.
>
> that would limit the voltage that you can put your regulator at 3V. If you go
> past that voltage, you'll end up blowing up your capacitor (quite a messy
> situation with electrolytic capacitor). At that voltage the ligth will be
> really dimmed.
>
> so that suggestion will not work, sorry :-(
>
> Martin
>
>
> In lugnet.trains, James Powell writes:
> >
> > > Of course, that might be an interesting way to make the train more "speed
> > > realistic" - it would gain speed more slowly since the capacitor would be
> > > pulling power from the motor, and it would slow down more slowly since the
> > > capacitor would be pushing power back into the motor.
> > >
> > > IANAEE though... (I am not an electrical engineer!)
> >
> > You'd have to use a diode. Trust me, it is very unlikely that the cap would • be
> > able to deliver much in the way of power to drive the train (they only hold a
> > few joules of energy, not much when compared even with the speed of a Lego
> > train).
> >
> > I think constant lighting is out for the same reasons, just not enough energy
> > density in the cap.
> >
> > James
> > (IANAEE either, IAAME)
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In lugnet.trains, Martin Legault writes:
> there is some spec for the capacitor on TLC web site
> http://www.lego.com/dacta/elab/default.htm
>
>
>
> Specifications:
>
> 1 F (Farad) 2.5 volt electrolytic capacitor
> Operating voltage 2.5 normal
> Charging voltage maximum 4 volt
> Maximum charging and discharging current 0-250 mA
> Red LED indicator when fully charged at 2.5 volt
> Protected against reverse polarity; capacitor will not fully charge
> Charged to 2.5 V the capacitor will store about 3.125 J of energy
>
> the regulator (I tested 2) have output voltage of 3.0-3.1 Volts on setting #1
> and 4.2-4.3 volts on setting #2.
>
> At 3Volts the ligth is not brigth at all.
>
> the suggestion to use the capacitor was good but not working with that
> capacitor, again sorry to bring bad news.
>
> Martin
>
> In lugnet.trains, Martin Legault writes:
> > oups!
> >
> > don't try it or be very carefull.
> >
> > the capacitor is a 1Farad 3Volts max capacitor.
> >
> > that would limit the voltage that you can put your regulator at 3V. If you go
> > past that voltage, you'll end up blowing up your capacitor (quite a messy
> > situation with electrolytic capacitor). At that voltage the ligth will be
> > really dimmed.
> >
> > so that suggestion will not work, sorry :-(
> >
> > Martin
> >
> >
> > In lugnet.trains, James Powell writes:
> > >
> > > > Of course, that might be an interesting way to make the train more "speed
> > > > realistic" - it would gain speed more slowly since the capacitor would be
> > > > pulling power from the motor, and it would slow down more slowly since the
> > > > capacitor would be pushing power back into the motor.
> > > >
> > > > IANAEE though... (I am not an electrical engineer!)
> > >
> > > You'd have to use a diode. Trust me, it is very unlikely that the cap would • be
> > > able to deliver much in the way of power to drive the train (they only hold a
> > > few joules of energy, not much when compared even with the speed of a Lego
> > > train).
> > >
> > > I think constant lighting is out for the same reasons, just not enough energy
> > > density in the cap.
> > >
> > > James
Well, if you can keep it at 3V maybe 3 cap's would be able to run the light,
or maybe 2, if its hitting 4.5V?
Josh
"Where's the box car door again?"
> > > (IANAEE either, IAAME)
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In lugnet.trains, Martin Legault writes:
> there is some spec for the capacitor on TLC web site
> http://www.lego.com/dacta/elab/default.htm
>
>
>
> Specifications:
>
> 1 F (Farad) 2.5 volt electrolytic capacitor
> Operating voltage 2.5 normal
> Charging voltage maximum 4 volt
> Maximum charging and discharging current 0-250 mA
> Red LED indicator when fully charged at 2.5 volt
> Protected against reverse polarity; capacitor will not fully charge
> Charged to 2.5 V the capacitor will store about 3.125 J of energy
>
> the regulator (I tested 2) have output voltage of 3.0-3.1 Volts on setting #1
> and 4.2-4.3 volts on setting #2.
>
> At 3Volts the ligth is not brigth at all.
>
> the suggestion to use the capacitor was good but not working with that
> capacitor, again sorry to bring bad news.
>
> Martin
For those who
1) aren't electrical engineers,
2) don't mind using the occasional non-LEGO solution
and
3) have some soldering experience,
What _would_ be an appropriate specification for a capacitor to do the job
described? Just in case someone might like to try it out..
Kevin
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In lugnet.trains, Kevin Maynes writes:
> In lugnet.trains, Martin Legault writes:
> > there is some spec for the capacitor on TLC web site
> > http://www.lego.com/dacta/elab/default.htm
> >
> >
> >
> > Specifications:
> >
> > 1 F (Farad) 2.5 volt electrolytic capacitor
> > Operating voltage 2.5 normal
> > Charging voltage maximum 4 volt
> > Maximum charging and discharging current 0-250 mA
> > Red LED indicator when fully charged at 2.5 volt
> > Protected against reverse polarity; capacitor will not fully charge
> > Charged to 2.5 V the capacitor will store about 3.125 J of energy
> >
> > the regulator (I tested 2) have output voltage of 3.0-3.1 Volts on setting #1
> > and 4.2-4.3 volts on setting #2.
> >
> > At 3Volts the ligth is not brigth at all.
> >
> > the suggestion to use the capacitor was good but not working with that
> > capacitor, again sorry to bring bad news.
> >
> > Martin
>
>
> For those who
>
> 1) aren't electrical engineers,
> 2) don't mind using the occasional non-LEGO solution
> and
> 3) have some soldering experience,
>
> What _would_ be an appropriate specification for a capacitor to do the job
> described? Just in case someone might like to try it out..
>
> Kevin
There is no good solution, unless you want to run your train at full speed for
interval period in order to charge a big capacitor at 8-9Volts, then reduce the
speed of the train and let the capacitor feed the ligth. Using that method the
ligth will be brigth when capacitor at full charge and will slowly lose some
brigthness when the capacitor will discharge.
Before the Lego capacitor, I saw one 1Farad 5V capacitor (better but not enough
voltage), It was the size of 5-6 quarter stack on top of each other. a 9 or 10
V would be more than twice the size + the require circuit (diode, resistor)
In my opinion the best solution would be to use a 9V battery in the lego case
power the ligth.
Martin
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In lugnet.trains, Josh Baakko writes:
> In lugnet.trains, Martin Legault writes:
> > there is some spec for the capacitor on TLC web site
> > http://www.lego.com/dacta/elab/default.htm
> >
> >
> >
> > Specifications:
> >
> > 1 F (Farad) 2.5 volt electrolytic capacitor
> > Operating voltage 2.5 normal
> > Charging voltage maximum 4 volt
> > Maximum charging and discharging current 0-250 mA
> > Red LED indicator when fully charged at 2.5 volt
> > Protected against reverse polarity; capacitor will not fully charge
> > Charged to 2.5 V the capacitor will store about 3.125 J of energy
> >
> > the regulator (I tested 2) have output voltage of 3.0-3.1 Volts on setting #1
> > and 4.2-4.3 volts on setting #2.
> >
> > At 3Volts the ligth is not brigth at all.
> >
> > the suggestion to use the capacitor was good but not working with that
> > capacitor, again sorry to bring bad news.
> >
> > Martin
> >
> > In lugnet.trains, Martin Legault writes:
> > > oups!
> > >
> > > don't try it or be very carefull.
> > >
> > > the capacitor is a 1Farad 3Volts max capacitor.
> > >
> > > that would limit the voltage that you can put your regulator at 3V. If you • go
> > > past that voltage, you'll end up blowing up your capacitor (quite a messy
> > > situation with electrolytic capacitor). At that voltage the ligth will be
> > > really dimmed.
> > >
> > > so that suggestion will not work, sorry :-(
> > >
> > > Martin
> > >
> > >
> > > In lugnet.trains, James Powell writes:
> > > >
> > > > > Of course, that might be an interesting way to make the train more "speed
> > > > > realistic" - it would gain speed more slowly since the capacitor would be
> > > > > pulling power from the motor, and it would slow down more slowly since the
> > > > > capacitor would be pushing power back into the motor.
> > > > >
> > > > > IANAEE though... (I am not an electrical engineer!)
> > > >
> > > > You'd have to use a diode. Trust me, it is very unlikely that the cap • would
> > > be
> > > > able to deliver much in the way of power to drive the train (they only hold • a
> > > > few joules of energy, not much when compared even with the speed of a Lego
> > > > train).
> > > >
> > > > I think constant lighting is out for the same reasons, just not enough • energy
> > > > density in the cap.
> > > >
> > > > James
>
> Well, if you can keep it at 3V maybe 3 cap's would be able to run the light,
> or maybe 2, if its hitting 4.5V?
> Josh
>
> "Where's the box car door again?"
> > > > (IANAEE either, IAAME)
The problem is not the amount of energy that the capacitor can keep, it is the
voltage that it can withstand between the 2 side.
You could try to put 2 capacitor in serie, that would bring you 8V maximum
voltage but will cut in half the amount of energy that you can store. It would
also require you to do some trick with the wire (possibly cutting the wire,
solder, ...) and still, you'll need to run your train at almost full speed
regularly in order to charge the capacitor.
You can see the capacitor as a beaver dam:
the voltage represent the difference in heigth of the water on both side
the capacity (in farad) the amount of water in can hold in the resevoir
the highest the water fall, the brigther the light is.
in order to charge the dam (capacitor) you need water coming from the highest
point possible, if the creek (regulator) feeding the dam is not high
enough(voltage) the water will not accumulate much, water level will not rise
higher. this will prevent the ligth to lit as brigth as possible even if you
have a reservoir the size of Texas or Michigan.
In my opinion the best solution would be to use a 9V battery in the lego case
power the ligth.
Martin
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Thanks for the specs Martin, saved me 15 bucks. Wishful thinking on my part
I guess.
jt
--
James J. Trobaugh
North Georgia LEGO Train Club
http://www.ngltc.org
Martin Legault <mlegault@nortelnetworks.com> wrote in message
news:G8EuIz.BCp@lugnet.com...
> there is some spec for the capacitor on TLC web site
> http://www.lego.com/dacta/elab/default.htm
>
>
>
> Specifications:
>
> 1 F (Farad) 2.5 volt electrolytic capacitor
> Operating voltage 2.5 normal
> Charging voltage maximum 4 volt
> Maximum charging and discharging current 0-250 mA
> Red LED indicator when fully charged at 2.5 volt
> Protected against reverse polarity; capacitor will not fully charge
> Charged to 2.5 V the capacitor will store about 3.125 J of energy
>
> the regulator (I tested 2) have output voltage of 3.0-3.1 Volts on setting • #1
> and 4.2-4.3 volts on setting #2.
>
> At 3Volts the ligth is not brigth at all.
>
> the suggestion to use the capacitor was good but not working with that
> capacitor, again sorry to bring bad news.
>
> Martin
>
> In lugnet.trains, Martin Legault writes:
> > oups!
> >
> > don't try it or be very carefull.
> >
> > the capacitor is a 1Farad 3Volts max capacitor.
> >
> > that would limit the voltage that you can put your regulator at 3V. If • you go
> > past that voltage, you'll end up blowing up your capacitor (quite a messy
> > situation with electrolytic capacitor). At that voltage the ligth will be
> > really dimmed.
> >
> > so that suggestion will not work, sorry :-(
> >
> > Martin
> >
> >
> > In lugnet.trains, James Powell writes:
> > >
> > > > Of course, that might be an interesting way to make the train more • "speed
> > > > realistic" - it would gain speed more slowly since the capacitor would • be
> > > > pulling power from the motor, and it would slow down more slowly since • the
> > > > capacitor would be pushing power back into the motor.
> > > >
> > > > IANAEE though... (I am not an electrical engineer!)
> > >
> > > You'd have to use a diode. Trust me, it is very unlikely that the cap • would
> > be
> > > able to deliver much in the way of power to drive the train (they only • hold a
> > > few joules of energy, not much when compared even with the speed of a • Lego
> > > train).
> > >
> > > I think constant lighting is out for the same reasons, just not enough • energy
> > > density in the cap.
> > >
> > > James
> > > (IANAEE either, IAAME)
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I have distinct memories of running a 9v train motor on the DACTA
capacitor at a WAMALUG meeting last spring. I don't remember the
details but the train ran for quite the distance. I think this was the
same meeting we were measuring train speed with the Speed Computer. Dan
Boger or Tom Cook would know more.
-chris
James J. Trobaugh wrote:
>
> Has anyone tried using one of these new Dacta LEGO Capacitors on their
> trains? Seems like this would be a good way to keep the head lights bright
> even when the train slows down.
>
> "http://www.pldstore.com/pitsco2/finditem.cfm?itemid=303&orderid=ID62116482496358679"
>
> I might have to buy one and try it out.
>
> jt
>
> -----
> James J. Trobaugh
> North Georgia LEGO Train Club
> http://www.ngltc.org
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In lugnet.trains, Martin Legault writes:
> In lugnet.trains, Josh Baakko writes:
> > In lugnet.trains, Martin Legault writes:
> > > there is some spec for the capacitor on TLC web site
> > > http://www.lego.com/dacta/elab/default.htm
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Specifications:
> > >
> > > 1 F (Farad) 2.5 volt electrolytic capacitor
> > > Operating voltage 2.5 normal
> > > Charging voltage maximum 4 volt
> > > Maximum charging and discharging current 0-250 mA
> > > Red LED indicator when fully charged at 2.5 volt
> > > Protected against reverse polarity; capacitor will not fully charge
> > > Charged to 2.5 V the capacitor will store about 3.125 J of energy
> > >
> > > the regulator (I tested 2) have output voltage of 3.0-3.1 Volts on setting #1
> > > and 4.2-4.3 volts on setting #2.
> > >
> > > At 3Volts the ligth is not brigth at all.
> > >
> > > the suggestion to use the capacitor was good but not working with that
> > > capacitor, again sorry to bring bad news.
> > >
> > > Martin
> > >
> > > In lugnet.trains, Martin Legault writes:
> > > > oups!
> > > >
> > > > don't try it or be very carefull.
> > > >
> > > > the capacitor is a 1Farad 3Volts max capacitor.
> > > >
> > > > that would limit the voltage that you can put your regulator at 3V. If you • go
> > > > past that voltage, you'll end up blowing up your capacitor (quite a messy
> > > > situation with electrolytic capacitor). At that voltage the ligth will be
> > > > really dimmed.
> > > >
> > > > so that suggestion will not work, sorry :-(
> > > >
> > > > Martin
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > In lugnet.trains, James Powell writes:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Of course, that might be an interesting way to make the train more "speed
> > > > > > realistic" - it would gain speed more slowly since the capacitor would be
> > > > > > pulling power from the motor, and it would slow down more slowly since the
> > > > > > capacitor would be pushing power back into the motor.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > IANAEE though... (I am not an electrical engineer!)
> > > > >
> > > > > You'd have to use a diode. Trust me, it is very unlikely that the cap • would
> > > > be
> > > > > able to deliver much in the way of power to drive the train (they only hold • a
> > > > > few joules of energy, not much when compared even with the speed of a Lego
> > > > > train).
> > > > >
> > > > > I think constant lighting is out for the same reasons, just not enough • energy
> > > > > density in the cap.
> > > > >
> > > > > James
> >
> > Well, if you can keep it at 3V maybe 3 cap's would be able to run the light,
> > or maybe 2, if its hitting 4.5V?
> > Josh
> >
> > "Where's the box car door again?"
> > > > > (IANAEE either, IAAME)
>
> The problem is not the amount of energy that the capacitor can keep, it is the
> voltage that it can withstand between the 2 side.
>
> You could try to put 2 capacitor in serie, that would bring you 8V maximum
> voltage but will cut in half the amount of energy that you can store. It would
> also require you to do some trick with the wire (possibly cutting the wire,
> solder, ...) and still, you'll need to run your train at almost full speed
> regularly in order to charge the capacitor.
>
> You can see the capacitor as a beaver dam:
>
> the voltage represent the difference in heigth of the water on both side
> the capacity (in farad) the amount of water in can hold in the resevoir
>
> the highest the water fall, the brigther the light is.
>
> in order to charge the dam (capacitor) you need water coming from the highest
> point possible, if the creek (regulator) feeding the dam is not high
> enough(voltage) the water will not accumulate much, water level will not rise
> higher. this will prevent the ligth to lit as brigth as possible even if you
> have a reservoir the size of Texas or Michigan.
>
>
> In my opinion the best solution would be to use a 9V battery in the lego case
> power the ligth.
>
> Martin
I think we'll have to wait for a DCC system :-(
Josh
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In lugnet.trains, Martin Legault writes:
<snip>
> In my opinion the best solution would be to use a 9V battery
> in the lego case power the ligth.
The cap. is a nice idea, but not at all practical.
I concur that a 9V battery is the way to go.
SRC
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