Subject:
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Re: Description vs. argument
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Mon, 15 Jan 2001 09:32:22 GMT
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Viewed:
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1127 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Arthur writes:
> > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek writes:
> > > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Arthur writes:
> > >
> > > > There is a cultural difference between us...
> > >
> > > Indeed there is. We have a culture of freedom, or did, in the US.
> >
> > There are those who say the US has no culture.
>
> This can be taken many ways.
It is a simple observation.
> If intended as a slur about our
> arts/literature/media, etc... it's irrelevant, and untrue.
>
> If intended as a comment on melting pots vs. many separate cultures, it's
> also untrue. The US has more of a unified culture than societies that don't
> encourage assimilation, but rather accept coexistance. Such as yours in
> which there are many ethnicities all keeping totally separate. That's not a
> slam against the UK, just a notation of difference.
You are a little wrong here about the UK. But I think, overall, we have
mixed well - given that most immigrants arrived here post WW2. As far as I
know we have never had legal segregation in the UK.
>
> If intended in some other way, please amplify. Or were you just sniping with
> soundbites? Yawn.
>
> > Larry I have questioned your "freedoms" many times - and each time you fail
> > to answer me. Until you are willing to answer those points, keep you vague
> > assertions to yourself. :-)
>
> Asked and answered. In depth. Pay attention.
I am, see here:
http://news.lugnet.com/off-topic/debate/?n=8203
==+==
OK Larry. I'll play your game again. Let's revist this message:
http://news.lugnet.com/off-topic/debate/?n=8141
Specifically this text:
=+=
The point I was making about rights concerned political freedoms. For
example - here in the UK one could always choose to be, say, a communist.
Can you say the same of the US? Or did you not have rather unsavoury "witch
hunts"? I even hear that in some parts of the US, widely accepted theories
such as evolution are not taught to your younger generations - they are not
given the freedom to choose? While we are talking about education, when did
the US get rid of segregation in the education system? Despite that, I'm
pretty sure you'd say parents should be able to dictate what is taught in a
school, or even select the colour of little Johnnie's class mates?
=+=
It was your assertion that you were in some way freer than I due to your
constitution. My point above is that may not really be the case. Previously,
you chose to delete this rather than answer it. Are you willing to educate
me this time?
==+==
This is your chance to answer this point for the 3rd or 4th time!
The last time you said it was "too disruptive"
>
> > > "Live free or die" - Motto on New Hampshire license plates
> >
> > There may be "little possibility for common ground" if you are only willing
> > to quote bumper stickers back your argument.
>
> True.
>
> However, your lack of knowledge of US culture, and your own history shows
> through if you dismiss that motto as a mere bumper sticker. It's on the
> license plate of every New Hampshire resident as a reminder that it is the
> state motto. And unlike other state mottos, it has a rather long and
> glorious history, since it was the motto chosen by the New Hampshire
> militia, and flown on the New Hampshire battle flag, when the New Hampshire
> militia kicked Red Coat butt during the revolutionary war.
This is all very confrontational Larry.
>
> You remember that war, right?
It was way before my time.
> That's the war in which we threw off the yoke
> of the British oppressors. It was a war about freedom, after all. So it's
> not too surprising if you forget the little details about it since it wasn't
> one of the British Empire's brightest moments to have the starch beaten out
> of it by a ragtag band of patriots (patriots armed with the latest military
> technology of the time, but a militia, not an army.)
... and technology has changed since then - making your current "militia" a
token. But I forgot, you support their being no restrictions on the types of
arms neighbours can keep under their bed.
>
> And further, the quote itself wasn't intended as a supporting argument of
> anything. It was merely a descriptive statement of sentiment, illustrative
> of our differences in outlook. A sentiment, since it has to do with freedom,
> and rights, and resistance to tyranny, that you're evidently not comfortable
> with. Deride it if you will, but you must acknowledge that it's a notion you
> don't accept, and that I do.
You are wrong.
>
> I realise that non critical thinkers might have difficulty with the
> difference between expository statements and argument.
>
> "Live free or die" makes no argument.
Did I say it was? Pay attention.
Scott A
It merely describes a sentiment. A
> sentiment I hold, and one you apparently do not. (yours is, perhaps "better
> red than dead" which is diametrically opposed in sentiment?) Hope that helps.
>
> ++Lar
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Description vs. argument
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| In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Arthur writes: May I? (...) Yes. And to compare, how is the history of British society and homosexuals? It's not exactly a political freedom, but it's similar, and your record sucks. (...) We did. (...) Evolution is (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jan-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Description vs. argument
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| (...) This can be taken many ways. If intended as a slur about our arts/literature/media, etc... it's irrelevant, and untrue. If intended as a comment on melting pots vs. many separate cultures, it's also untrue. The US has more of a unified culture (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jan-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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