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In our LEGO collection from sets bought in the 60's and 70's, some of the red
bricks (a small percentage) are slightly off-color. They have a more glossy
surface than other bricks, and they do not grip very well with other bricks or
with each other. They seem to be made out of a different type of plastic, but
they say "LEGO" on the studs, so presumably they are authentic bricks. Most are
2x4 bricks, but there are some 2x3 and 2x2 bricks as well. Out of curiosity,
has anybody else seen these bricks?
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On Sun, 16 Dec 2007, Dave McCooey wrote:
> In our LEGO collection from sets bought in the 60's and 70's, some of the red
> bricks (a small percentage) are slightly off-color. They have a more glossy
> surface than other bricks, and they do not grip very well with other bricks or
> with each other. They seem to be made out of a different type of plastic, but
> they say "LEGO" on the studs, so presumably they are authentic bricks. Most are
> 2x4 bricks, but there are some 2x3 and 2x2 bricks as well. Out of curiosity,
> has anybody else seen these bricks?
Those sound like cellulose acetate bricks.
--
TWS Garrison
http://www.morfydd.net/twsg/
LEGO: CA+++ SW++ GA+c #++++++ LS+++ P+++++ YB77m
Remove capital letters in address for direct reply.
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In lugnet.color, Thomas Garrison wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Dec 2007, Dave McCooey wrote:
>
> > In our LEGO collection from sets bought in the 60's and 70's, some of the red
> > bricks (a small percentage) are slightly off-color. They have a more glossy
> > surface than other bricks, and they do not grip very well with other bricks or
> > with each other. They seem to be made out of a different type of plastic, but
> > they say "LEGO" on the studs, so presumably they are authentic bricks. Most are
> > 2x4 bricks, but there are some 2x3 and 2x2 bricks as well. Out of curiosity,
> > has anybody else seen these bricks?
>
> Those sound like cellulose acetate bricks.
Thanks for the reference, and I now see that several online LEGO histories
mention cellulose acetate as the material for all bricks prior to 1963.
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In lugnet.color, Dave McCooey wrote:
> In lugnet.color, Thomas Garrison wrote:
> > On Sun, 16 Dec 2007, Dave McCooey wrote:
> >
> > > In our LEGO collection from sets bought in the 60's and 70's, some of the red
> > > bricks (a small percentage) are slightly off-color. They have a more glossy
> > > surface than other bricks, and they do not grip very well with other bricks or
> > > with each other. They seem to be made out of a different type of plastic, but
> > > they say "LEGO" on the studs, so presumably they are authentic bricks. Most are
> > > 2x4 bricks, but there are some 2x3 and 2x2 bricks as well. Out of curiosity,
> > > has anybody else seen these bricks?
> >
> > Those sound like cellulose acetate bricks.
>
> Thanks for the reference, and I now see that several online LEGO histories
> mention cellulose acetate as the material for all bricks prior to 1963.
There were also some parts that did not fit into either type of plastic. It is
a different red and a few yellow air tanks, plate 1x2 with ladder and some of
the 1x1 plates with clips or headlights. There is a difference that is clear to
see and they are not the CA or the plastic they use now. The very early bricks
also had a different color to them.
John P
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In lugnet.color, John Patterson wrote:
> In lugnet.color, Dave McCooey wrote:
> > In lugnet.color, Thomas Garrison wrote:
> > > On Sun, 16 Dec 2007, Dave McCooey wrote:
> > >
> > > > In our LEGO collection from sets bought in the 60's and 70's, some of the red
> > > > bricks (a small percentage) are slightly off-color. They have a more glossy
> > > > surface than other bricks, and they do not grip very well with other bricks or
> > > > with each other. They seem to be made out of a different type of plastic, but
> > > > they say "LEGO" on the studs, so presumably they are authentic bricks. Most are
> > > > 2x4 bricks, but there are some 2x3 and 2x2 bricks as well. Out of curiosity,
> > > > has anybody else seen these bricks?
> > >
> > > Those sound like cellulose acetate bricks.
> >
> > Thanks for the reference, and I now see that several online LEGO histories
> > mention cellulose acetate as the material for all bricks prior to 1963.
>
> There were also some parts that did not fit into either type of plastic. It is
> a different red and a few yellow air tanks, plate 1x2 with ladder and some of
> the 1x1 plates with clips or headlights. There is a difference that is clear to
> see and they are not the CA or the plastic they use now. The very early bricks
> also had a different color to them.
> John P
Was this other plastic type used in the 60s or earlier? These red bricks in our
collection are glossy and have an orange-ish tint, which fits the description
for CA (at least based on what I've read here on LUGNET), but none of them are
warped, even in the slightest. We have some white bricks that are warped, so
they are probably CA. Is it possible that red CA bricks don't warp like other
CA bricks?
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In lugnet.color, Dave McCooey wrote:
> Was this other plastic type used in the 60s or earlier? These red bricks in our
> collection are glossy and have an orange-ish tint, which fits the description
> for CA (at least based on what I've read here on LUGNET), but none of them are
> warped, even in the slightest. We have some white bricks that are warped, so
> they are probably CA. Is it possible that red CA bricks don't warp like other
> CA bricks?
I think there are two issues here:
The original CA bricks (made until 1963) have a tendency to warp, shrink or
become similarly unusable. The extent of warping or shrinking varies, depending
on how the bricks were treated and stored over the years. Few if any should
still be easily interlockable with modern bricks.
In some rare cases (I only have a couple of blue slope bricks) you find bricks
with the old (somewhat "hand written") LEGO imprint on the studs but apparently
made from ABS already.
What the other post referenced as a "different plastic" appears to relate to
e.g. the 1*1 bricks with handle that were used in a variety of 1990s and later
train sets. I also know of some of the 1*1 plates with clip and headlight bricks
from that period. They actually appear to be made from a different, slightly
softer material. Also, their colors usually slightly vary from the standard
color scheme. This is definitely not the same issue as was with the CA bricks.
Regards,
Jerry
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In lugnet.color, Gereon Stein wrote:
> In lugnet.color, Dave McCooey wrote:
> > Was this other plastic type used in the 60s or earlier? These red bricks in our
> > collection are glossy and have an orange-ish tint, which fits the description
> > for CA (at least based on what I've read here on LUGNET), but none of them are
> > warped, even in the slightest. We have some white bricks that are warped, so
> > they are probably CA. Is it possible that red CA bricks don't warp like other
> > CA bricks?
>
> I think there are two issues here:
>
> The original CA bricks (made until 1963) have a tendency to warp, shrink or
> become similarly unusable. The extent of warping or shrinking varies, depending
> on how the bricks were treated and stored over the years. Few if any should
> still be easily interlockable with modern bricks.
>
> In some rare cases (I only have a couple of blue slope bricks) you find bricks
> with the old (somewhat "hand written") LEGO imprint on the studs but apparently
> made from ABS already.
>
> What the other post referenced as a "different plastic" appears to relate to
> e.g. the 1*1 bricks with handle that were used in a variety of 1990s and later
> train sets. I also know of some of the 1*1 plates with clip and headlight bricks
> from that period. They actually appear to be made from a different, slightly
> softer material. Also, their colors usually slightly vary from the standard
> color scheme. This is definitely not the same issue as was with the CA bricks.
Our off-color red bricks are from the 60s, and the plastic they are made from
seems to be at least as hard as ABS, so they aren't made from this third, softer
plastic. They are most likely CA, but the fact that none of them are warped is
suspect. They all interlock well with ABS bricks. It's just that they don't
"grip" very well.
Speaking of bricks with the old LEGO imprint on the studs, we have lots of them.
They appear to be ABS, as you mentioned. These are probably mid-60s bricks.
Dave
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In lugnet.color, Dave McCooey wrote:
> Our off-color red bricks are from the 60s, and the plastic they are made from
> seems to be at least as hard as ABS, so they aren't made from this third, softer
> plastic. They are most likely CA, but the fact that none of them are warped is
> suspect. They all interlock well with ABS bricks. It's just that they don't
> "grip" very well.
Well the lack of "grip" is a strong hint for CA anyway. Even if the bricks are
not warped, there is some extent of shrinkage which causes the lack of grip - I
think I heard from different sources that CA bricks never had too much grip to
begin with.
> Speaking of bricks with the old LEGO imprint on the studs, we have lots of them.
> They appear to be ABS, as you mentioned. These are probably mid-60s bricks.
Could be - I can only refer to the few blue slopes I have, and the material is
positively ABS. Might be LEGO produced ABS bricks using the old masters,
although I understand the machinery required is in several points very different
from the one used for CA.
Isn't there any official statement on the history of LEGO brick materials?
Jerry
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In lugnet.color, Dave McCooey wrote:
> In lugnet.color, Gereon Stein wrote:
> > In lugnet.color, Dave McCooey wrote:
> > > Was this other plastic type used in the 60s or earlier? These red bricks in our
> > > collection are glossy and have an orange-ish tint, which fits the description
> > > for CA (at least based on what I've read here on LUGNET), but none of them are
> > > warped, even in the slightest. We have some white bricks that are warped, so
> > > they are probably CA. Is it possible that red CA bricks don't warp like other
> > > CA bricks?
> >
> > I think there are two issues here:
> >
> > The original CA bricks (made until 1963) have a tendency to warp, shrink or
> > become similarly unusable. The extent of warping or shrinking varies, depending
> > on how the bricks were treated and stored over the years. Few if any should
> > still be easily interlockable with modern bricks.
> >
> > In some rare cases (I only have a couple of blue slope bricks) you find bricks
> > with the old (somewhat "hand written") LEGO imprint on the studs but apparently
> > made from ABS already.
> >
> > What the other post referenced as a "different plastic" appears to relate to
> > e.g. the 1*1 bricks with handle that were used in a variety of 1990s and later
> > train sets. I also know of some of the 1*1 plates with clip and headlight bricks
> > from that period. They actually appear to be made from a different, slightly
> > softer material. Also, their colors usually slightly vary from the standard
> > color scheme. This is definitely not the same issue as was with the CA bricks.
>
> Our off-color red bricks are from the 60s, and the plastic they are made from
> seems to be at least as hard as ABS, so they aren't made from this third, softer
> plastic. They are most likely CA, but the fact that none of them are warped is
> suspect. They all interlock well with ABS bricks. It's just that they don't
> "grip" very well.
>
> Speaking of bricks with the old LEGO imprint on the studs, we have lots of them.
> They appear to be ABS, as you mentioned. These are probably mid-60s bricks.
>
> Dave
These off color bricks are from the mid to late 70s and maybe into the very
early 80s. The are neither kind of plastic that the Samsonite and early sets
were made from, a totally different soft plastic and they grip the same as the
newer bricks. Again, I have only noted this on the 1x1 with clips or headlights
and the airtanks and the 1x2 plates with ladder. I also noticed an off color
gray that I forgot to mention as well as the yellow and the red at the same
times. I think, and it is a thought, maybe they tried out sourcing to see what
would happen, or they got an inferior plastic and went with it anyway. These
bricks grip quite well, just slightly off color and of a different plastic.
John P
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In lugnet.color, Dave McCooey wrote:
> In lugnet.color, John Patterson wrote:
> > In lugnet.color, Dave McCooey wrote:
> > > In lugnet.color, Thomas Garrison wrote:
> > > > On Sun, 16 Dec 2007, Dave McCooey wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > In our LEGO collection from sets bought in the 60's and 70's, some of the red
> > > > > bricks (a small percentage) are slightly off-color. They have a more glossy
> > > > > surface than other bricks, and they do not grip very well with other bricks or
> > > > > with each other. They seem to be made out of a different type of plastic, but
> > > > > they say "LEGO" on the studs, so presumably they are authentic bricks. Most are
> > > > > 2x4 bricks, but there are some 2x3 and 2x2 bricks as well. Out of curiosity,
> > > > > has anybody else seen these bricks?
> > > >
> > > > Those sound like cellulose acetate bricks.
> > >
> > > Thanks for the reference, and I now see that several online LEGO histories
> > > mention cellulose acetate as the material for all bricks prior to 1963.
> >
> > There were also some parts that did not fit into either type of plastic. It is
> > a different red and a few yellow air tanks, plate 1x2 with ladder and some of
> > the 1x1 plates with clips or headlights. There is a difference that is clear to
> > see and they are not the CA or the plastic they use now. The very early bricks
> > also had a different color to them.
> > John P
>
> Was this other plastic type used in the 60s or earlier? These red bricks in our
> collection are glossy and have an orange-ish tint, which fits the description
> for CA (at least based on what I've read here on LUGNET), but none of them are
> warped, even in the slightest. We have some white bricks that are warped, so
> they are probably CA. Is it possible that red CA bricks don't warp like other
> CA bricks?
No these are softer plastic, I have only noted them in the air tanks and 1xs2
plate ladders and some 1x1 plates. The are from the 70s and very earily 80s.
All were a little off color.
John P
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In lugnet.color, John Patterson wrote:
> No these are softer plastic, I have only noted them in the air tanks and 1xs2
> plate ladders and some 1x1 plates. The are from the 70s and very earily 80s.
> All were a little off color.
> John P
You are right, some of the minifig air tanks of that period appear to be of a
very weird material. As opposed to later versions, they are unusually worn out
and the color actually seems to fade over the years.
Can't say what material they are, though.
Jerry
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