Subject:
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Re: Predator/Prey thoughts ...
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.robotics
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Date:
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Thu, 3 Dec 1998 22:06:17 GMT
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Original-From:
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Paul Speed <pspeed@augustschellSPAMLESS.com>
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Viewed:
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2782 times
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Well,
In real life, if a preditor doesn't eat then it starves.
So why not in robot life too? Maybe it can even get more desperate
as it gets closer to death. The prey then wins when all of the
preditors are dead.
-Paul
Eric Eilebrecht wrote:
>
> I think the biggest problem with having prey which are not also preditors is
> that the prey, by definition, can't win. It can only hold out for a while.
> Sure, it's interesting to write the code - but how long do you let it run
> before you get tired of it? With a preditor, you know exactly how and when
> you have won the game.
>
> Eric
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Wieland (Exchange) [mailto:peterwie@exchange.microsoft.com]
> Sent: Thursday, December 03, 1998 1:16 PM
> To: 'tim@ams.co.nz'; lego-robotics@crynwr.com
> Subject: RE: Predator/Prey thoughts ...
>
> i think i disagree that sumo wrestling (particularly in this context) is
> about who weighs the most and has the most power. It's about how you
> arrange the limited set of sensors you've got and how you build your bot. A
> light bot with lots of speed could get away from a slow & powerful one
> easily but might run over the edge of the circle quickly. A powerful one
> without much speed is probably not as well defended against being pushed
> from the side. If you've got a blind spot in your sensors or can't tell a
> left-hand hit from a right-handed one then you may be in trouble.
>
> but i also don't particularly like the level footing of rock-paper-scissors.
> I think the idea of trying to build prey which act like prey is kind of
> cool. Prey do silly things like find dark spots or light spots or run in
> circles or follow along walls until something "out of the ordinary" happens
> in which case they freeze or run like hell. Predators use the same sorts of
> criteria (finding dark or light or walls) but either can find the prey
> despite their lack of movment, or the flush them out and attack.
>
> has anyone written a neural net program for the RCX yet?
>
> -p
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tim McSweeney [mailto:tim@ams.co.nz]
> Sent: Thursday, December 03, 1998 12:53 PM
> To: lego-robotics@crynwr.com
> Subject: RE: Predator/Prey thoughts ...
>
> aha, but that's the beauty of having a human judge as the decider, they can
> tell what a bot hit. If it hit a wall then from the bots point of view
> nothing changes, the bot backs up and heads off in another direction. If
> the bot hits another bot then one of them is going to get picked up and
> moved. Probably in either case the bot should back up and take stock of
> it's situation, either it hit a wall in which case whatever it was chasing
> is probably hiding behind it so it needs to do some navigation, or it hit a
> bot in which case the bot got moved and so the hunter should try and
> "re-acquire" a new target. Of course similar arguments apply for bots that
> are currently avoiding the hunters.
>
> To make things even simpler The "dead" prey bot could be cycled off and on
> again to reset it.
>
> The reason that I find paper-Rock-Scissors so interesting is that all of the
> bots are on an equal footing, all of them have to find a balance between
> hunting and hiding and do both at the same time. It's a lot more
> "intellectual" than Sumo Wrestling which basically comes down to who ways
> the most, and who has the lowest gear ratio.
>
> There are some really interesting strategies that can arise.
>
> The timid paper sits quietly with it's transmitter of and when it sees a
> lone rock wandering round it charges at it screaming
> "paper-paper-paper-paper-paper"
>
> The defensive scissors runs around avoiding rocks like the plague, and with
> any luck might find the odd paper.
>
> The aggressive rock charges after scissors and completely ignores paper and
> just tries to mush scissors, occasionally it gets caught by a paper and done
> in.
>
> Which strategy works the best is undefined until the end of a particular
> game. it depends on what your opponents do. Of course there is always the
> possibility that the bots will modify their behaviour based on what the
> others are doing and this is where it gets really interesting. Suddenly how
> you program your bot becomes very important.
>
> Cheers
> Tim
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: news@lugnet.com [mailto:news@lugnet.com]On Behalf Of Matthew
> > Miller
> > Sent: Friday, December 04, 1998 9:26 AM
> > To: lego-robotics@crynwr.com
> > Subject: Re: Predator/Prey thoughts ...
> >
> >
> > Tim McSweeney <lego-robotics@crynwr.com> wrote:
> > > "Touch 'em and they die" rule appeals, the judgescan do all • the hard work
> > > and the bots only have to run in a straight line towards the • the opponent
> > > (or away from) and bounce off the walls. Note: there's no • reason why the
> > > "arena" can't be arbitrarily complex, say like someones
> > living room floor.
> >
> > Well, yes there is. If there's objects besides robots which
> > can be hit,
> > robots need some way of telling the difference between "I hit
> > you!" and "I
> > hit a wall!".
> >
> > --
> > Matthew Miller --->
> > mattdm@mattdm.org
> > Quotes 'R' Us --->
> http://quotes-r-us.org/
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Message is in Reply To:
 | | RE: Predator/Prey thoughts ...
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| I think the biggest problem with having prey which are not also preditors is that the prey, by definition, can't win. It can only hold out for a while. Sure, it's interesting to write the code - but how long do you let it run before you get tired of (...) (26 years ago, 3-Dec-98, to lugnet.robotics)
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