To LUGNET HomepageTo LUGNET News HomepageTo LUGNET Guide Homepage
 Help on Searching
 
Post new message to lugnet.off-topic.funOpen lugnet.off-topic.fun in your NNTP NewsreaderTo LUGNET News Traffic PageSign In (Members)
 Off-Topic / Fun / 8044
8043  |  8045
Subject: 
Re: Bummer of the Week: LEGO Made in China (long forgotten subject!)
Newsgroups: 
lugnet.off-topic.fun
Date: 
Sat, 8 Sep 2001 00:58:33 GMT
Viewed: 
1804 times
  
In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Pedro Silva writes:
In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Larry Pieniazek writes:
In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Dave Low writes:

I couldn't find any more informative references to or by him either -- his
comments on Ayn Rand's propagandists were sufficient guarantee of
reliability for me as a layperson:
http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/overrate.htm (#18)

He's a twit. Quoting:

The Berlin Wall (1961-89)
Berlin: the grim and lonely front line in the Cold War.

What exactly happens on the front lines of a non-event? Border guards glare
at one another; they patrol the barbed wire perimeter, and carefully check
your papers before waving you through.

Big deal; they do that on the Canadian border.

Can anyone explain the importance of the Wall without using the word "symbolic"?



How about this: "Hundreds of thousands of people escaped enslavement before
it was built, it kept millions from trying to escape after it was built, and
the guards directly caused the death of hundreds if not thousands of people
shot while trying to cross it"


Never once used symbolic, did I?

No, you did not.
But I must say it doesn't take *a wall* to prevent people from fleeing (see
"Iron curtain"), and people got shot and killed while crossing borders in
different contexts: before 1974 you could get killed by the portuguese
border patrol if you were caught "jumping" (crossing with no papers) to
Spain. My point is that those who were shot had no papers/visas, and were
illegally (acording to DDR's law) trying to cross the border  -  hence
becoming "legal" targets. Not that I agree with that, but it was *their* law.
So I disagree with you when you claim the Berlin Wall was not symbolic: It
was a symbol, a very *visible* symbol of the ideological fracture between
East and West. The key is visible - it was of little difference trying to
cross the German border elsewhere, because there were *different*, less
visible, means to keep people "imprisioned". In fact, bearing in mind the
relative proportion of East Germans living near BRD's border (including West
Berlin's), Berlin had the correspondent death ratio of about a third of the
total.
Besides, some of the impact of the Berlin Wall was due to the fact it was
built fairly quickly and unexpectedly, suddenly showing East Germans what
their government thought about those who wanted to leave. It ended many
hopes, and when hope is gone there is little else to fight for - such was
the intended "psichological factor" (spelling?) of the Wall. It almost
succeeded, yet fortunately it did not.

OK, great. So how was this a non event? Wasn't aware that millions of
enslaved people was a "non event". (enslaved by the USSR's territorial
aggrandisement, by the way, I haven't forgotten I have some stuff to come
back to...)

He's a twit.



Message has 1 Reply:
  Re: Bummer of the Week: LEGO Made in China (long forgotten subject!)
 
(...) Yeh, but note it's a personal call, and he also points out (elsewhere) that "overrated" doesn't mean "unimportant." (...) Dunno, never met the guy. LFB (23 years ago, 8-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Message is in Reply To:
  Re: Bummer of the Week: LEGO Made in China (long forgotten subject!)
 
(...) No, you did not. But I must say it doesn't take *a wall* to prevent people from fleeing (see "Iron curtain"), and people got shot and killed while crossing borders in different contexts: before 1974 you could get killed by the portuguese (...) (23 years ago, 7-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

103 Messages in This Thread:
(Inline display suppressed due to large size. Click Dots below to view.)
Entire Thread on One Page:
Nested:  All | Brief | Compact | Dots
Linear:  All | Brief | Compact

This Message and its Replies on One Page:
Nested:  All | Brief | Compact | Dots
Linear:  All | Brief | Compact
    

Custom Search

©2005 LUGNET. All rights reserved. - hosted by steinbruch.info GbR