Subject:
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Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Sun, 30 Jan 2000 22:23:57 GMT
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Viewed:
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2455 times
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On Thu, 27 Jan 2000 14:18:47 GMT, Christopher Weeks
<clweeks@eclipse.net> wrote:
> Jasper said:
> OK, I was talking about once we were at the fully implemented system.
> Transition is always a problem, but those problems are not enough of a
> reason to look at a better system and opt not to strive for it. If we
It's not a better system, so that's entirely irrelevant.
> Well, at least there would be a good reason for huge CEO salaries. You
> surely weren't suggesting that this situation doesn't currently exist?
I was in fact suggesting that the situation does not currently exist
to the extent that it would.
>
> > a completely flat power structure, neither of which is a good thing at
> > all.
>
> I doubt this would evolve except in the few organizations where it can
> work well.
Yah. Right. Big companies will always spend a dollar to save a cent
(and not many times over save a cent, but quite literally..). It's the
way things work.
> If the system were in place, then people who were going into management
> would understand that their role was going to include this
"going into" management? You make it sound like it's necessarily
voluntary.
> Well...because ultimately they don't exist. A company is a legal
> fiction to rename and shield a group of PEOPLE. You can slap the wrists
> of people, but not companies. How would you propose to discipline a
> company with no psychology, no mores, no emotion, no pain, etc?
Money. Quite easy.
>
> > > If bob the janitor is caught selling kiddie porn on the net at home, the
> > > employers is not guilty of the same.
> >
> > Why not?
>
> For obvious reasons. They bear no responsibility for his actions
> outside of his contracted responsibilities at work.
Really? And if his responsibilities include keeping the floors clean,
are his managers responsible if someone slips on the wet floors? If he
is responsible for sweeping the floors clean only, and he pushes the
proverbial button that causes a nuclear meltdown/spill/chemical
disaster/fire, are the CEOs respoinsible?
>
> > And what if he hacked the corporate server to host his
> > kiddieporn site?
>
> Then they should give him a better job ;-)
Trust me, as CEO, you do not want a true BOFH. You want a puppet luser
administrator, not somebody who knows what they're doing.
>
> Actually, they should fire and sue him.
And meanwhile they're suing him in civil court, the CEO is indicted in
_criminal court_ for kiddie porn distribution. What's wrong with this
picture?
> > Is anyone whose server gets hacked into delivering porn and/or
> > copyrighted material automatically a criminal, because "they obviously
> > didn't have enough protection in place"?
>
> Potentially, but not certainly. If they were grossly negligent -
> refused to use security precautions as a philosophical statement for
> instance - then they might be criminal. If they followed reasonable
> precautions, but were randomly hacked, then they bear no guilt...as long
> as they respond appropriately.
And what happens to, say, anonymizer? Or AOL-with-the-homepage? Or
Geocities?
Jasper
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]
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| (...) The managers that I've known were typically not forced into management at gunpoint. Maybe things work differently in NL, but I wouldn't have guess in that way. (...) But that doesn't make the company feel fear or pain. It might - if the sums (...) (25 years ago, 31-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]
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| (...) OK, I was talking about once we were at the fully implemented system. Transition is always a problem, but those problems are not enough of a reason to look at a better system and opt not to strive for it. If we adopted a gradual aproach to the (...) (25 years ago, 27-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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