In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Mike Petrucelli wrote:
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http://www.creators.com/opinionshow.cfm?next=2&ColumnsName=wwi
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I take exception to the conclusions in that article in that it engages in some
egregiously pro-corporate logic. The laws of tort need no reforming, despite the
increasingly popular conclusion that they do. In fact, contrary to the implied
meaning of the article, any possible tort reform would in my view mean less
“common law” in our system and not more. I don’t want to go into the details of
tort law because that’s at least several semesters of law school to REALLY and
TRULY understand it (which I know all too well myself even though I am not a
lawyer). But if you search “tort reform” in this forum there is some
interesting stuff there.
Let’s just take on the tobacco thing as an example. I quote the article:
“One such doctrine of tort liability is the assumption-of-risk doctrine. Simply
put, the assumption-of-risk doctrine holds that if the user of a product or
service is aware of the danger, and nevertheless proceeds to make use of the
product or service and is injured by it, he is barred from recovery. In other
words, assumption-of-risk doctrine holds that people bear some accountability
for the results of their actions.”
I note a difference between “some accountability” and “barred from recovery” --
a slippery bit which may be intended to conceal the real problem. What’s the
real problem? This part: “...if the user of a product or service is aware of the
danger...” That right there tells you why we don’t need tort reform.
Again, talking tobacco...
Let’s say I’m a smoker (which I am not in reality, BTW). I agree to purchase a
product that I believe, in my heart of hearts, to be tobacco cigarettes. Gee,
look -- what an enormous health warning this package has printed on it. But I
remain undeterred and buy the cigarettes anyway. I smoke these things for 40
years -- say during the years 1960-2000. Now my health is wrecked, I’m pissed
off, and I want to sue the tobacco companies.
The suggestion is that I should be barred from from recovery. But I ask you: was
I ever really aware of the danger of the product? You might say: “Dude, right
there on the package -- the warning!” Here’s where I may need someone else’s
help -- because I think that cigarettes are supposed to be tobacco, but I am not
sure that they are labelled that way on the package. Can we accept that
cigarettes are basically the following: tobacco wrapped in paper with some kind
of cotton-filter tip? I am willing to have this assumption amended for greater
accuracy, BTW...
This is where we have to talk about famed tobacco industry whistle blower
Jeffrey Wigand:
The Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act defines drugs as “articles (other than food)
intended to affect the structure or any function of the body.” How the tobacco
industry’s activities fit this definition became the central focus for the
investigation. Some of this narrative reads like a John Le Carré novel, with FDA
investigators talking to persons with code names like “Cigarette Jr.,” “Saint,”
and “Critical” and to the subject of the movie The Insider, Jeffrey Wigand, who
had been a highly placed research director at Brown and Williamson. Other former
industry employees discussed many aspects of tobacco manufacturing, and the
highly engineered product the modern cigarette has become. “Saint” had been a
thermodynamics specialist and reported on processes such as denicotinizing
tobacco and “supercritical extraction,” for removing carcinogens from tobacco,
which Philip Morris had investigated. Kessler details how he and his staff
processed immense amounts of information never before studied by federal
regulators, including the chemistry of tobacco smoke, the science of growing and
processing tobacco, and the use of additives such as ammonia to make nicotine
more available to the smoker’s brain. Another segment of the investigation
involved tracking down a genetically altered, high-nicotine tobacco called Y-1,
which was secretly used in Brown and Williamson products to produce a relatively
low-tar, high-nicotine cigarette.
Industry documents played a large part in proving intent. Exhaustive review of
documents obtained in lawsuits against the tobacco industry revealed that for
years nicotine had been known to be addictive and to function as a tranquilizer,
a stimulant, or a depressant. Such explicit statements, previously unknown to
the health community, showed that the tobacco industry was actively designing
its products to deliver, in the words of a 1963 Brown and Williamson memo, “an
addictive drug effective in the release of stress mechanisms.” RJ Reynolds memos
from the early 1970s pointed out that “Nicotine is known to be a habit-forming
alkaloid . . . the user is primarily seeking the physiological ‘satisfaction’
derived from nicotine and perhaps other active compounds. Thus, a tobacco
product is, in essence, a vehicle for the delivery of nicotine.” This played
into the agency’s decision to regulate cigarettes as devices that deliver the
drug nicotine.
Edit: and this bit...
The July 19, 1995, issue of JAMA was devoted entirely to articles that analyzed
for the first time in the medical literature internal tobacco industry documents
from Brown and Williamson. Upon publication, copies were hand delivered to
President Clinton, who read the issue from cover to cover. In late July 1995
Kessler met with the President, who said, “I just read all those documents, and
I want to kill them the tobacco companies.” The President approved the FDA
proposals, which were announced at a White House ceremony on August 10, 1995.
http://www.rwjf.org/reports/grr/031147.htm
Now, I’m not an expert or anything, but what I get from this information is that
the “tobacco” sold in cigarettes isn’t really just tobacco. In fact, here’s a
more detailed list of the “extras” one has no idea about:
This list was disclosed in 1994 after years of pressure by consumers and
Congress. The 599 Ingredients Added to Tobacco in the Manufacture of Cigarettes
by the Five Major American Cigarette Companies:
Acctanisole, Acetic Acid, Acetoin, Acetophenone, 6i-Acetoxydihydrotheaspirane,
2-Acetyl-3-Ethylpyrazine, 2-Acetyl-5-Methylfuran, Acetylpyrazine,
2-Acetylpyridine, 3-Acetylpyridine, 2-Acetylthiszole, Aconitic Acid, Dl-Alanine,
Alfalfa Extract, Allspice Extract, Oleoresin and Oil, Allyl Hexanoate, Allyl
Ionone, Almond Bitter Oil, Ambergris Tincture, Ammonia, Ammonium Bicarbonate,
Ammonium Hydroxide, Ammonium Phosphate Dibasic, Ammonium Sulfide, Amyl Alcohol,
Amyl Butyrate, Amyl Formate, Amyl Octanoate, alpha-Amylcinnamaldebyde, Amyns
Oil, Trans-Anethole, Angelica Root Extract, Oil and Seed Oil, Anise, Anise Star,
Extract and Oils, Anisy Acctate, Anisyl Alcohol, Anisyl Formate, Anisyl
Phenylacctate, Apple Juice Concentrate, Extract and Skins, Apricot Extract and
Juice Concentrate, 1-Arginine, Asafetida Fluid Extract and Oil, Ascorbic Acid,
1-Asparagine Monohydrate, 1-Aspaartic Acid, Balsam Peru and Oil, Basil Oil, Bay
Leaf Oil and Sweet Oil, Beeswax White, Beet Juice Concentrate, Benzaldehyde,
Benzaldehyde Glyceryl Acetal, Benzoic Acid, Benzoin, Benzoin Resin,
Benzophenone, Benzyl Alcohol, Benzyl Benzoate, Benzyl Butyrate, Benzyl
Cinnamate, Benzyl Propionste, Benzyl Salicylate, Bergamot Oil, Bisabolene, Black
Currant Buds Absolute, Borncol, Bornyl Acctate, Buchu Lea Oil, 1,3-Butanediol,
2,3-Butanedione, 1-Butanol, 2-Butanone,
4(2-Butenlidene)-3,5,5-Trunethyl-2-Cyclohexen-1 Oue, Butter, Butter Esters, and
Butter Oil, Butyl Acetate, Butyl Butyrate, Butyl Butyryl Lactate, Butyl
Isovalcrate, Butyl Phenylacetate,Butyl Undocylenate, 3-Butylidenephthalide,
Butyric Acid, Cadinene, Caffeine, Calcium Carbonate, Camphene, Cananga Oil,
Capsicum Oleoresin, Caramel Color, Caraway Oil, Carbon Dioxide, Cardamom
Oleoresin, Extract, Seed Oil and Powder, Carob Bean and Extract, Beta-cascarilla
Oil and Bark Extract, Cassia Bark Oil, Cassie Absolute and Oil, Castoreum
Extract, Tincture and Absolute, Cedar Leaf Oil, Cedarwood Oil Terpenes and
Virginiana, Cedrol, Celery Seed Extract, Solid, Oil, and Oleoresin, Cellulose
Fiber, Chamomile Flower Oil and Extract, Chicory Extract, Chocolate,
Cinnamaldehyde, Cinnamic Acid, Cinnamon Leaf Oil, Bark Oil and Extract, Cinnamyl
Acetate, Cinnamyl Alcohol, Cinnamyl Cinnamate, Cinnamyl Isovalerate, Cinnamyl
Propionate, Citral, Citric Acid, Citronells Oil, dl-Citronellol, Citronellyl
Butyrate, Citronellyl Isobutyrate, Civet Absolute, Clary Oil, Clover Tops, Red
Solid Extract, Cocoa, Cocoa Shells, Extract, Distillate and Powder, Coconut Oil,
Coffee, Cognac White and Green Oil, Copaiba Oil, Coriander Extract and Oil, Corn
Oil, Corn Silk, Costus Root Oil, Cubeb Oil, Cuminaldehyde, para=Cymene,
1-Cysteine, Dandelion Root Solid Extract, Davans Oil, 2-trans,
4-trans-Decadienal, delta-Decalactone, gamma-Decalactone, Decanal Decanoic Acid,
1-Decanol, 2-Decanal, Dehydromenthofurolactone, Diethyl Malonate, Diethyl
Sebacate, 2,3-Diethylpyrazine, Dihydro Anethole, 5,7-Dihydro-2Methylthieno
(3,4-D) Pyrimidine, Dill Seed Oil and Extract, meta-Dimethoxybenzene,
para-Dimethoxybenzene, 2,6-Dimethoxyphenol, Dimethyl Succinate, 3,4-Dimethyl-1-2
Cyclopentanedione, 3,5-Dimethyl-1-2-Cyclopentanedione, 3,7-Dimethyl-1,
3,6-Octatriene, 4,5-Dimethyl-3-Hydroxy, 2,5-Dihydrofuran-2-One, 6,10-Dimethyl-5,
9-Undecadien-2-One, 3, 7-Dimethyl-6-Octenoc Acid, 2,4-Dimethylacetophenone,
alpha, para-Dimethylbenzyl Alcohol, alpha, alpha-Dimethylphenethyl Acetate,
alpha, alpha Dimethylphenethyl Butyrate, 2,3-Dimethylpyrazine,
2,5-Dimethylpyrazine, 2,6-Dimethylpyrazine, Dimethyltetrahydrobenzofuranone,
delta-Dodecalactone, gamma-Docecalactone, para-Ethoxybenzaldehyde, Ethyl
10-Undecenoate, Ethyl 2-Methylbutyrate, Ethyl Acetate, Ethyl Acetoacetate, Ethyl
Alcohol, Ethyl Benzoate, Ethyl Butyrate, Ethyl Cinnamate, Ethyl Decanoate, Ethyl
Fenchol, Ethyl Furoate, Ethyl Heptanoate, Ethyl Hexanoate, Ethyl Isovalerate,
Ethyl Lactate, Ethyl Laurate, Ethyl Levulinate, Ethyl Maltol, Ethyl Methyl
Phenylglycidate, Ethyl Myristate, Ethyl Nonanoate, Ethyl Levulinate, Ethyl
Maltol, Ethyl Methyl Phenylglycidate, Ethyl Myristate, Ethyl Nonanoate, Ethyl
Octadecanoate, Ethyl Octanoate, Ethyl Oleate, Ethyl Palmitate, Ethyl
Phenylacetate, Ethyl Propionate, Ethyl Salicylate, Ethyl trans-2-Butenoate,
Ethyl Valerate, Ethyl Vanillin, 2-Ethyl (orMethyl)-(3,5 and 6)-Methoxypyrazine,
2-Ethyl-1-Hexanol, 3-Ethyl-2-Hydroxy-2-Cyclopenten-1-One, 2-Ethyl 3, (5 or
)-Dimethylpyrazine, 5-Ethyl-3-Hydroxy-4-Methyl-2(5H)-Furanone,
2-Ethyl-3-Methylpyrazine, 4-Ethylbenzaldehyde, 4-Ethylguaiacol,
para-Ethylphenol, 3-Ethylpyradine, Eucalyptol, Farnesol, D-Fenchone, Fennel
Sweet Oil, Fenugreck, Extract, Resin and Absolute, Fig Juice Concentrate, Food
Starch Modified, Furfury Mercaptan, 4-(2-Fury)-3-Buten-2-One, Galbanum Oil,
Genet Absolute, Gentian Root Extract, Geraniol Geranjum Rose Oil, Geranyl
Acetate, Geranyl Butyrate, Geranyl Formate, Geranyl Isovalerate, Geranyl
Phenlacetate, Ginger Oil and Oleoresin, Glutamic Acid, 1-Glutamine, Glycerol,
Gllyeyrrhizin AmmoniatedGrape Juice Concentrate, Gualac Wood Oil, Guaiacol, Guar
Gum, 2,4-Heptadienal, gamma-Heptalactone, Heptanoic Acid, 2-Heptanone,
3-Hepten-2-One, 2-Hepten-4-One, 4-Heptenal, trans-2-Heptenal, Heptyl Acetate,
omega-6-Hexadecenlactone, gamma-Hexalactone, Hexanal, Hexanoic
Acid-2-Hexen-l-001, 3-Hexen-1-01, 3-Hexen-1-Y1 Acetate, 2-Hexenal, 3-Hexenoic
Acid, trans-2-Hexenoic Acid, cis-3-Hexenyl Formate, Hexyl-2 Milk Solids,
Hydrolyzed Plant Proteins, 5-Hydroxy-2-4 Decadienoic kAcid Lactone,
Hydroxycitronellal, 6-Hydroxydihydrotheaspieane,
4-(para-Hydroxyphenyl)-2-Butanone, Hyssop Oil, Immortelle Absolute and Extract,
alpha-Ionone, beta,Ionone, alpha-Irone, Isoamyl Acetate, Isoamyl Benzoate,
Isoamyl Cinnamate, Isoamy Formate, Isoamyl Hexanoate, Isoamyl Isovalerate,
Isoamyl Octanoate, Isoamyl Phenylacetate Isobornyl Cinnamate, Metnyl
Dinyarojasmonate, Metnyl Esler of Kosin, Partially riyarogensieu, Metnyl
Dovaierate, Methyl Linoleate (48%), Methyl Lanolenate (52%) Micture, Methyl
Naphthyl Ketone, Methyl Nicotinate, Methyl Phenylacetate, Methyl Salicytate,
Methyl Sulfide, 3-Methyl-1-Cyclopentadecanone, 4=Methyl-1-Phenyl-2-Pentanone,
5-Methyl-2-Phenyl-2-Hexenal, 5-Methyl-2-Thiophenecarbonaldehyde, 6-Methyl-3,
5-Heptadien-2-One, 2-Methyl-3-(para-Isopropylphenyl) Propionaldehyde,
5-Methyl-3-Hexen-2-One, 1-Methyl-3 Methyoxy-4-Isopropylbenzene,
4-Methyl-3-Pentene-2-One, 2-Methyl-4-Phenylbutyraldehyde,
6-Methyl-5-Hepten-2-One, 4-Methyl-5-Thiazoleethanol, 4-Methyl-5-Vinylthiazole,
Methyl-alpha-lonone, Methyl-trans-2-Butenoic Acid, 4-Methylbutyraldehyde,
3-Methylbutyraldehyde, 2-Methylbutyric Acid, alpha-Methylcinnamaldehyde,
Methylcyclopentenolone, 2-Methylheptanoic Acid, 2-Methylhexanoic Acid,
3-Methylpentanoic Acid, 4-Methylpentanoic Acid, 2-Methylheptanoic Acid,
2-Methylhexanoic Acid, 3-Methylpentanoic Acid, 4-Methylpentanoic Acid,
2-Methylpyrazine, 5-Methylquinoxaline, 2-Methylterahydronfuran-3-One,
(Methylthio) Methylpyrazine ( Mixture Of Isomers), 3-Methylthiopropionaldehyde,
Methyl 3-Methylthiopropionate, 2-Methylvaleric Acid, Mimosa Absolute and
Extract, Molasses Extract and Tincture, Mountain Maple Sollid Extract, Mullein
Flowers, Myristaldehydep Myristic Acid, Myrrh Oil, beta=Napthyl Ethyl Ether,
Nerol, Neroli Bigarde Oil, Nerolidol, Nona-2-trans, 6-cis-Dienal, 2,
6-Nonadien-l-01, gamma-Nonalactone, Nonanal, Nonanoic Acid, Nonanone,
trans-2-Nohen-1-01, 2-Nohen-1-01, 2-Nonenal, Nonyl Acetate, Nutmeg Powder and
Oil, Oak Chips Extract and Oil, Oak Moss Absolute, 9,12-Octadecadiernoic Acid
(48%) and 9, 12, 15-Octadecatreinoic Acid (52%), delta-Octalactone,
gamma-Octalactone, Octanal, Octanoic Acid, 1-Octanol, 2-Octanone, 3-Octen-2-One,
1-Octen-3-Ol, 1-Octen-3-Yl Acetate, 3-Octenal, Octyl Isobutyrate, Oleic Acid,
Olibanum Oil, Opoponax Oil and Gum, Orange Blossoms Water, Absolute, and Leaf
Absolute, Orange Oil and Extract, Origanum Oil, Orris Concrete Oil and Root
Extract, Palmarosa Oil, Palmitic Acid, Parsley Seed Oil,l Patchouli Oil,
omega-Pentadecalactone, 2,3-Pentanedione, 2-Pentanone, 4-Pentenoic Acid,
2-Pentylpyridine, Pepper Oil,l Black and White, Peppermint Oil, Peruvian (Bois
De Rose) Oil, Petitgrain Absolute, Mandarin Oil and Terpeneless Oil,
alpha-Phellandrene, 2-Phenenthyl Acetate, Phenenthyl Alcohol, Penethyl Butyrate,
Penethyl CLinnamate, Penethyl Isobutyrate, Penethyl Isovalerate, Penethyl
Phenylacetate, Phenethyl Salicylate, 1-Phenyl-1-Propanol, 3-Phenyl-1-Propanol,
2-Phenyl-2-Butenal, 4-Phenyl-3-Buten-2-01, 4-Phenyl-3-Buten-2-One,
Phenylacetaldehyde, Phenylacetic Acid, 11-Phenylalanine,
3-Phenylpropionaldehyde, 3-Phenylpropionic Acid, 3-Phenylpropyl Acetate,
3-Phenylpropyl Scotch, Pineapple Juice Concentrate, alpha-Pinene, beta-Pinene,
D-Piperitone, Piperonal, Pipsissewa Leaf Extract, Plum Juice, Potassium Sorbate,
1-Proline, Propenylguaethol, Propionic Acid, Propyl Acetate, Propyl
para-Hydroxybenzoate, Propylene Glycol, 30Propylidenephthalide, Prune Juice and
Concentrate, Pyridine Pyroligeneous Acid and Extract, Pyrrole, Pyruvic Acid,
Rainin Juice Concentrate, Rhodinol, Rose Absolute and Oil, Rosemary Oil, Rum,
Rum Ether, Rye Extract, Sage, Sage Oil and Sage Oleoresin, Salicyladehyde,
Sandalwood Oil, Yellow, Sclareolide, Skatole, Smoke Flavor, Snakeroot Oil,
Sodium Acetate, Sodium Benzoate, Sodium Bicarbonate, Sodium Carbonate, Sodium
Chloride, Sodium Citrate, Sodium Hydroxide, Solanone, Spearmint Oil, Styrax
Extract, Gum and Oil, Sucrose Octaacetate, Sugar Alcohols, Sugars, Tagetes Oil,
Tannic Acid, Tartaric Acid, Tea Leaf and Absolute, alpha Terpineol,
Terpilnolene, Terpinyl Acetate, 5,6,7,8,-Tetrahydroquinoxaline,
1,5,5,9-Tetramethyl-13-Oxstricyclo (8.3.0.0 (4,9)) Tridecane, 2,3,4,5 and
3,4,5,6-Tetramethylethyl-Cyclohexanone, 2,3,5,6-Tetramethylphyrazine, Thiamine
Hydrochloride, Thiazole, 1-Thereonine, Thyme Oil, White and Red, TLhymol,
Tobacco Extracts, Tochopherols (mixed), Tolu Balsam Glum and Extract,
Tolualdehydes, para-Tolyl, 3-Methylbutyrate, para-Tolyl-kAcetaldehyde,
pars-Tolyl Acetate, para-Tolyl Isobutyrate, para-Tolyl-Phenylacetate Triacetin,
2-Tridecanone, 2-Tridecenal, Triethyl Citrate, 3,5,5-Grimethyl-1-Hexanol, para,
alpha, alpha Trimethylbenzyl Alcohol, 4-(2,6,6-Trimethylcyclohex-1-Enyl)
But-2-En-4-One, 2,6,6-Trimethylcyclohex-2-Ene-1,4-Dione,
2,6,6-Trimethylcyclohexa-1,3-Dienyl Methan, 4-(2,6,6-Trimethylcyclohexa-1,
3-Dienyl) But-2-En-4-One-2,2,6-Trimethylcyclohexanone, 2,3,5-Grimethylpyrazine,
1-Tyrosine, delta-Undercalactone, gamma-Undecalactone, Undecanal, 2-Undecanone,
10-Undecenal, Urea, Valencene, Valeraldehyde, Valerian Root Extract, Oil and
Powder, Valeric Acid, gamma-Valerplactone, Valine, Vanilla Extract and Oleresin,
Vanillin, Vertaraldehyde, Vetiver Oil, Vinegar, Violet Leaf Absolute, Walnut
Hull Extract, Water, Wheat Extract and Flour, LWild CLherry Bark Extract, Wine
and Wine Sherry, Xanthan Gum, 3,4-XLylenol, Yeast.
http://www.rwjf.org/reports/grr/031147.htm
So again...
The suggestion is that I should be barred from from recovery. But I ask you: was
I ever really aware of the danger of the product? You might say: “Dude, right
there on the package -- the warning!”
I think I can prove to the satisfaction of a panel of venireman that the label
is insufficient warning and that the tobacco industry is liable for damages
committed against me without my prior knowledge or consent. Let me stress that
someone like me thought they were smoking tobacco and a little bit of paper
filtered through some kind of cotten-like thing. I didn’t realize I was smoking
an industry ultra-engineered “vehicle for the delivery of nicotine” or that I
was a targetted return customer/”addict.”
Do I think we need tort reform? Well, hell no! Without the carrot at the end of
the stick (MONEY) lawyers will not fight against vastly wealthy multi-national
corporations. I don’t know about you, but it seems to me that the govt. did not
do a very good job of regulating an industry whose product was designed to
injure people through chemicals AND WITHOUT THEIR KNOWLEDGE OR CONSENT! We
need a second string of defense against the big money -- we need lawyers despite
all the silly lawyer jokes. And when and if you need a lawyer, you might be
happy to have one on your side.
The McDonald’s thing? It’s all about the information provided me isn’t it? Can
you say: “partially hydrogenated fats”? What are these fats really doing to
people? See? When I was a kid a cookie was made soft by dunking it in milk, now
it comes out of the package all soft and gooey. I think there may be more here
than meets the eye...
BTW, I very rarely eat at McDonald’s or ingest pre-gooey cookies -- not unless
I am on a roadtrip or on a bender. Generally, I read product labels with greater
interest than anyone I know.
-- Hop-Frog
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