Subject:
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Re: I miss the old LUGNET...
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Mon, 5 Nov 2001 05:32:10 GMT
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Viewed:
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1142 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Johann writes:
> > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek writes:
> > > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Johann writes:
> > >
> > > > Topic Closed.
> > >
> > > Who made you the judge of what topic is closed and what topic isn't? Topics
> > > stop being posted about because all the participants stop.
> >
> > No one made me the judge of anything. I was testing to see if you had the
> > willpower to let the discussion drop. I have my answer.
>
> Well, let's see. Mladen slagged Amy. I called him on it but then let his
> comebacks insults go.
>
> Mladen called me LUGNET's policeman. In another thread, I discussed why
> people who care about LUGNET need to get actively involved in helping grow
> and shape things, as well as actively involved in helping fix things when
> they go awry.
Larry, getting actively involved is something many of us try to do, Mladnen
included. Unfortunately, sometimes helping comes across as criticism, no matter
how hard we try to make it not look like that. I've recently been on that side
of thinhs myself, when I didn't realize that a post I made could be taken as an
insult, which it was not.
> That's not being a policeman, it's just caring about how things go. Suz
> can't be everywhere and can't clean up every mess.
True and false. I do consider it to be a policing action, which is fine. I do it
myself whenever I have a chance.
> He hasn't addressed
> whether he agrees that people DO need to care and take action, just insulted
> me (not even the originator of the particular thread that started this
> festuche) for caring about how things go.
Not publicly, he hasn't. Then again, he doesn't have to.
> Mladen said I only wish I had the talent Eric does. You know as well as I do
> that particular sort of trash talk is unacceptable behaviour and childish
> besides. Go see what I said in response to that childish behaviour. Nothing.
> Not a word. Didn't take any willpower to leave that one lie, did it?
That's your choice whether or not to respond to things like this. Personally, I
think you did the right thing by letting it go. I commend you for that.
> This at a time when the originator of the widspread crosspost said "yes I
> understand the issue now and will be more thoughtful about it in future". I
> have no beef at all with Eric, and he has none with me either. Lots of other
> people have said this is the correct direction... don't excessively cross
> post. No response to the substantive stuff by Mladen, just a claim by him
> that people are "utterly disgusted" with me. Which people? That's not the
> way MY mail is running.
And that's fine as well....the 'excessive crossposting' issue was silly the
first time I saw it (and didn't respond) and I still think it's silly now. Eric
had his reasons for the crosspost and neither you nor Amy needed to know what
they are. He let the issue boil for a bit, then responded with the post you saw.
Fair enough. The issue is done if the people involved say it's done.
Regarding the "utterly disgusted" comment...these certainly aren't the words I
would have used, but I've heard similar responses concerning you. Again, it's
not that you reply..it's how you reply.
> Mladen hasn't justified the original slagging, hasn't justified his insults,
> hasn't responded to the substantive issues, hasn't responded to the people
> asking him to stop either.
>
> So who doesn't have willpower? Who's above the fray? Mladen owes a number
> of people an apology for his behaviour in this thread, not just me.
No one is above the fray if they chose to enter it in the first place.
> Here's a tip for YOU: Don't administer little "tests". Don't try to play
> those games with me.
I'll do it if I choose to. What you do in response is your choice.
> I won't play.
You already did.
> Smacks of social engineering. Shame on
> you for playing, in fact.
I do what I need to do to get my point across. That is all.
> Say what you mean and don't try to be a thread arbiter, deciding when things
> are closed and when they aren't. Threads are closed when the people who are
> in them are done. If you want to be helpful, do helpful things like helping
> steer threads into the proper discussion venue, help calm people down, help
> by giving thoughtful questions and thoughtful discussion and thoughtful
> answers.
Amazing...giving advice that you don't follow yourself! I do my best to steer
threads in a positive and enlightening way 99% of the time and only on the 1% of
the time that I don't do this do I get advice. Thanks, but no thanks Larry.
> And if you have any influence whatever over Mladen (which I doubt anyone, or
> anything actually does, except maybe the mirror), get him to apologise to
> all the thread participants for his unruly behaviour, or at least just to
> shut up.
Mladen will apologize when he feels he needs to do so and to those he feels need
it. You seem to forget that many teens are headstrong and speak before thinking.
I don't agree with everything Mladen says any more than I agree with everything
you have to say, but most of the time you both make sense. As far as getting him
to shut up, well...people respond to what they wish to respond to. I can't
control that any more than you can. If you don't want to deal with it, then
don't.
> At this point expecting him to participate in this discussion in a useful
> way is perhaps not a reasonable expectation, so silence would be an
> improvement over his insults.
So you say.
> I for one am very interested in substantively participating in this
> important discussion about how to make LUGNET a better place, but it's
> difficult to participate in a meaningful way if what I get from another
> participant is nothing but insults. That's not needed here, and it's not
> welcome here either. Most people *are* in fact participating in a meaningful
> and useful way.
>
> ++Lar
Agreed. Now, let's move on and drop this part of the thread as it still serves
no positive way to improve LUGNET.
-Dave
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Message is in Reply To:
 | | Re: I miss the old LUGNET...
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| (...) Well, let's see. Mladen slagged Amy. I called him on it but then let his comebacks insults go. Mladen called me LUGNET's policeman. In another thread, I discussed why people who care about LUGNET need to get actively involved in helping grow (...) (23 years ago, 5-Nov-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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