Subject:
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Re: Is this sexism?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Sun, 1 Jul 2001 07:29:09 GMT
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Viewed:
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631 times
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> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek writes:
> I'm afraid I am still "stuck" on rights. (and I've been stuck on them
> before) What are rights? How do you know if you have them?
I think "rights" came along after bouts of give and take, either within
nature or within society, until equilibrium (long or short term) was
achieved. I think all "rights" thus far in human society were preceeded by
violence until it became so evident that compromise, and even surrender, was
more effective and cost less lives. I think the notion of morals came along
after all the killing settled. The irony is that homo sapiens sapiens kill
their own species more than any species in the history of history, yet we
somehow think of ourselves as moral beings.
> Let's talk about organisms other than man for a bit.
> I'm in the camp that doesn't see bacteria as having rights, per se. Bacteria
> have an *imperative* to reproduce, it is genetically programmed into them.
> But I am not sure I'd speak of them having rights to reproduce. Do you?
> Why so? That is, what do you mean by "right" in this case? How do you >determine what rights are?
Well, humans are every bit as genetically programmed to reproduce as any
bacteria. But we are also sentient beings and can learn and make decisions
regarding reproduction. Bacteria cannot, they just do what they've been
doing for eons. However, their "rights" still apply in nature's example. If
we infringe on a bacteria's natural right to live and thrive, we may offset
the delicate balance just enough to destroy ourselves as well.
A good example is the hole we've made in the ozone layer. Unwittingly, we
caused ultraviolet light to seep in which destroys bacteria and plankton,
starting a downward spiral in the rest of the food chain. So, in a sense,
bacteria have a right and reason to exist and multiply. Whether they are
capable of knowing it or not doesn't make a difference since we know it and
we know what happens now if we kill certain bacteria off. In a way, our
"rights" are intertwined.
> You could argue that they have the right to *try* to live,
> but in an ecosystem, other organisms tend to fight back if they are disease
> causing bacteria and that tends to "infringe" on their right to live and
> reproduce.
Yes, but I wouldn't call such competition infringement because it is a part
of nature and takes little away, unlike most of mankind which takes more
than it gives back to nature. That's more of an infringement because we step
out of nature's boundaries
> I'm in the camp that doesn't see wild hares as having rights, per se. Again,
> they're part of an ecosystem and they will strive to live, fight off
> predators and reproduce, but I'm again not sure that they have rights.
> Again, do you agree or disagree? How do you determine the rights? How is the
> right of the rabbit to have progeny "different" than the right of the coyote
> to eat those progeny? Coyotes eat meat, it is programmed into them. What
> says that the rabbit's rights are better or worse than the coyote's?
Should have used the Road Runner instead of rabbit in this example, I have
no problem with that damn bird finally being the Coyote's dinner. But
seriously, in the sense of rights we have to look at the bigger picture. If
we say animals don't have rights and kill them with impunity, doesn't it
affect the environment and us as well? I'm originally from Michigan and deer
hunting is very big there. But the deer population is still out of control
and much of that has to do with killing and running out the wolf population.
So, in a sense, their rights are our rights because it affects us.
<snipped some stuff>
I understand what your saying, and I'm trying to find a better way to
explain my view. If I think of something better I'll post again.
Dan
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Message has 1 Reply:
Message is in Reply To:
 | | Re: Is this sexism?
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| (...) <snipped all the rest because I'm not disagreeing with it> I'm afraid I am still "stuck" on rights. (and I've been stuck on them before) What are rights? How do you know if you have them? Let's talk about organisms other than man for a bit. (...) (23 years ago, 1-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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