Subject:
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Re: A question of remembrance...
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Wed, 2 May 2001 12:05:06 GMT
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Viewed:
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887 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Richard Marchetti writes:
> > Larry Pieniazek writes:
> > > But what if the fault is almost all on one side? (it's not 60-40 in this
> > > case but it's not 99-1 either, so this is a hypothetical, I want to know
> > > what you think) What then?
> >
> > Well, this is a very hard question to answer in the hypothetical without
> > more specifics, so I leave it to you to pose a more detailed hypothetical
> > should you choose to do so.
>
> How about when one side is a nation that says it wants to exterminate a
> certain religion's adherents and the other side is an almost weaponless
> group of members of that religion in the inner city of an occupied capital
> of a country that nation invaded?
>
> > Larry, could you define what you mean by a terrorist?
>
> Good question. I would tend to say it's a person or group using violence
> against bystanders as a way to make a political point or get a political
> outcome.
Nonsense. Terrorism can are be perpitrated against a state. Groups such as
the IRA worked that killing "bystanders" is bad PR. So they attack the state
: Police, Army, & the Post Office(!). Recently the IRA have taken to
apologising when bystanders are killed.
> A kidnapper, for example, is not usually a terrorist, he just wants
> a ransom, (although there ARE terrorist hostage takings, admittedly) nor is
> a deranged shooter.
>
> Answering your examples...
>
> > Do you mean like Timothy McVey,
>
> Clearly yes, Timothy McVeigh is a terrorist. (and since he says he wants to
> die publicly, we had ought to not give him what he wants and keep him alive
> and in prison with no publicity until he changes his mind and wants to live,
> at which point...)
>
> > the dozens of people at the Wacco compound,
>
> No, I would call the instigators of violence in that situation (the BATF)
> more along the lines of government forces out of control rather than
> terrorists. They had no explicit political goal other than self aggrandizement.
>
> > or rioters in the
> > streets of Los Angeles after the civil trial of the police who beat Rodney >King?
>
> Rioters? I don't think so (but I haven't dug in hard on the circumstances,
> this is a snap characterization). Looters? almost certainly not, they were
> using the unrest as an excuse to steal from innocent third parties.
>
> > Some people claim political grounds for their actions but can be thought of
> > as little more than common criminals.
I agree. Much of those involved in the UK "riots" yesterday can be found in
their local bar starting fights most Friday nights. The pity is that the
violence means that the real issues which are the point of the demostrations
are not considered as fully as they would have been.
Scott A
>
> Yes.
>
> > When their numbers are significant
> > enough, their individual crimes may coalesce into a kind of civil
> > insurrection - a movement of a sort with real grievances they would like
> > redressed. Where and how do you draw the line between each group?
>
> Good question. I don't know.
>
> ++Lar
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: A question of remembrance...
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| (...) And this is the point the Palestinians need to understand. So long as they threaten Israel, Israel can do nothing less than take steps to assure the safety of its people. Unfortunately, sometimes the only way to make sure you are safe from (...) (24 years ago, 2-May-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: A question of remembrance...
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| (...) How about when one side is a nation that says it wants to exterminate a certain religion's adherents and the other side is an almost weaponless group of members of that religion in the inner city of an occupied capital of a country that nation (...) (24 years ago, 2-May-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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