Subject:
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Re: Announcing LEGO Digital Designer 1.0
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.cad, lugnet.lego.direct
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Date:
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Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:04:10 GMT
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Viewed:
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2775 times
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> == A new LEGO building application ==
> LEGO has been making building software for many years now (like LEGO Creator
> and LEGO CAD). In (or around) June we will be releasing the latest and best
> version, tentatively codenamed "LEGO Digital Designer." You will be able to
> download it from LEGO.com. It's targeted at kids and novice users, so it's
> not meant to "compete" with the powerful tools that have been developed for
> the LDraw file format. We hope that it'll be a fun and easy to learn way for
> many new users, young and old, to start playing with LEGO bricks in 3D. As
> they learn, they would hopefully graduate to more complex powerful LEGO
> building tools.
Does this mean there will be a complex, powerful LEGO building tool to be
released later or does this mean the graduation towards the LDraw tools such
as MLCAD?
> == Our goal is for all LEGO-style building software to work together ==
> We think all LEGO builders, inside and outside the company, should have
> tools that suit their skill level and particular requirements, and that you
> should be able to move models between these tools. For many years now we
> have been developing an internal file format, known as LXF, to make this
> kind of interaction possible. Starting a couple years ago, we also solicited
> input from some members of the LDraw community about what they would like to
> see in a new LEGO model format, and we'd like to continue that process. We
> would also like to see the LDraw file format models work with LXF format for
> the same reason -- so that models you build in one program can be used in
> others.
Multiple file formats never seem to work out too well (can you say BETA vs.
VHS? JPG vs PNG?) It's a known fact one format will dominate. The question
now is which will it be for LXF? Most "paint" programs now support multiple
file formats, which is the ONLY way they can remain within the market. If a
paint program only supported jpg, how long will it last before it's
outdated, especially against the new format of png?
The same issue applies here. If the two formats are to remain compatible,
it's necessary that ALL, and I mean EVERY single application using LEGO
parts for 3D render support all file formats. This means that DD MUST
support the LDraw file format. This means that MLCAD (et al) MUST support
the LXF file format.
If this is not accomplished, one of these two formats will fail.
Last year, I was working on a "top secret" project to create a 3D render
application for use on the web, such that models could be viewed in "real
time" in a web browser. Unfortunately, I was not met with open arms, and I
have since given up on this project. I found the "proprietary" attitude to
be more than I can handle, ESPECIALLY since the applications themselves
wouldn't have existed without the OPEN SOURCE modeling unit (the LDraw Part).
I don't believe in proprietary control of anything. I believe anything
dealing with a common and popular area should be shared to EVERYONE! This is
how development is achieved. What one person fails to see, another usually does.
I don't, nor would ever, believe that LEGO would take over with LXF or any
application it develops. I am VERY glad LEGO has taken the steps to create
an application geared towards younger fans. Often, I am asked about the CAD
applications by adults who don't know how to do any modeling, so I can see
this software being used just as LEGO says...from basic steps and graduating
towards advanced levels.
I will definitely be keeping my eyes on the modeling future.
> == LDraw Standards Committee (LSC) collaboration ==
> It is absolutely marvelous to see the LDraw community begin a push towards
> formalization. This will, end the long run, make it much easier for LEGO to
> work with directly with the LDraw community on issues of collaboration, and
> future development. Much like the ILTCO provides a “Batphone” between the
> Train community and LEGO, hopefully this is the Batphone to the LDraw community.
This news shocked me when I first heard about it. To be quite honest, I
thought it already existed! One learns something new every day :D
> == Tools for software developers ==
> Unlike many other companies, we have a tradition of trying to encourage the
> work of independent software developers, who want to tinker, revise and/or
> restructure and build on our software. The work done by developers on the
> software in our RIS sets, which operates the RCX, is a great example. In the
> same spirit, we plan to release a Software Development Kit (SDK) based on
> our new building application, with tools that will hopefully prove useful to
> developers that want to work with or try to improve upon the current LEGO
> building software.
This is great!!! I'm just now getting into robotics, and I find the LEGO
version limiting, but a great starting place (aside from that annoying
800x600 screen resolution I can't control >:( ). Once I get the basics, I'll
ditch the LEGO version and head towards another application :)
I'd like to see several SDKs come from LDraw as well, especially in the "How
To Vector" part for application development.
> This is likely to raise some questions:
Really? ;)
> - Will your new building applications open DAT/LDR/MPD files?
> Probably not, but we hope to provide some tools for translating DAT/LDR/MPD
> into LXF. There are many complex issues involved and we will be asking for
> information from the LDraw community to help with this goal.
[edited my comment out]
> - Aren't you just trying to replace the LDraw file format and take over?
> Not at all. We think users and software authors should support whatever
> format they find works the best for them. We developed LXF originally as a
> format for our own use, and we think it might prove useful to everyone. We
> would definitely like to see the tools necessary to go back and forth
> between the two formats, because there is a lot of great stuff out there in
> the LDraw file format.
Ummm...this one has me puzzled. Does LEGO not have a model of every single
piece it's produced in the LXF format?
How were models designed before LXF?
I don't think LEGO has a room full of monkeys painting instructions!! ;)
> - Are you going to release a parts library?
> It makes a lot of sense for us to release parts, as LEGO is the source of
> all official parts anyway. However, we do not yet have a complete plan for
> how or if we can do this, and it's highly unlikely that we'd be able to
> release every part all at once. Your input on this issue is more than
> welcome; please tell us what would be useful for you.
Can I make a special request....before you release any part, can you PLEASE,
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE release a color chart first?
The reason I humbly and respectfully ask this request is to make sure
everyone is on board with the same part. For example, is it light blue,
Maersk blue, sky blue, purple blue, blue, dark blue, chrome blue? Ok, you
can see where this is going.
If the parts are to be "compatible", the first thing to do is start working
on the color code, to make sure the files CAN be used together. More
importantly, it can give other sites and applications time to start coding
the updates now, in anticipation for the June release.
> - Is the LXF format going to be open, will you publish it and will we be
> able to extend it?
> We will provide all of the necessary information in the SDK so that
> independent developers can make their own tools that use LXF. However, as
> many developers will tell you, it's good to try and manage the growth of a
> format to some extent, so we would like to maintain the official list of
> what the format includes.
[no comment at this time on this one]
> - Where can I get more information about how LXF works? Can I see LEGO
> Digital Designer?
> Since the software is still in development, we are not able to legally
> release it for viewing. In June, you will be able to download the program
> for usage. That being said, we have beginning to open a dialog with the
> LDraw software developers under Non-Disclosure Agreements (NDA). This will
> allow us to get their feedback on the SDK development, implementation
> concepts, and future developments. Unfortunately, since the issues involved
> with how this software works relates directly to our core business, we have
> to be careful what is shared with the outside world.
Will the SDK be released along with DD?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've been working with modeling for over a year now. I currently use MLCAD,
L3P, and POV-Ray for my modeling experience. I've toyed with other tools,
but found them lacking or buggy, so I've stuck with just these three.
I'm hoping this news doesn't stop the production of current applications
used by fans. I'd still like to see the next step in "snapping parts" become
a reality. I'd also like to see more user-friendly applications produced so
when the graduation does happen, it's not a total shock, especially from a
"basic" version.
Software is the key component in development. Although the LDraw parts are
the fundamental part of the software for rendering, if it didn't exist,
someone else would have worked on the file concept. I've dabbled a few times
to rewrite some of the LDraw files into a totally different format, but just
for internal use, as I know a new format wouldn't have been accepted. This
was needed for the web render project.
The introduction of a new file format has more impact than just modeling.
There are other venues that take full advantage of parts, such as Peeron's
inventory listing. With this in mind, is there a way to:
1)Create a universal naming convention of files? What a 1x2 brick is called
in DD should also be called in LDraw. This would require the cooperation
between LEGO and LDraw.
2)Create an open source database of such a listing from #1. This would
definitely help out in compatibility between sites, as well as future
application development. Would there be an issue of proprietary control
should such a database be created? Cause you can bet I'll be creating one if
the part names are different.
Now, let me take a moment to introduce myself. Some of you may already know
who I am, but most of you won't.
My name is Robert, and I've been "in the shadows". I've been monitoring
LUGNET, BrickLink, FBTB, and Peeron in terms of community interaction.
I haven't posted much because I didn't want to come across as a loudmouth
trouble maker.
But, in the past couple of months, I've started noticing a trend which has
me excited. It seems the community sites are now beginning to work together,
and more importantly, work towards a single, unified set of standards.
Since LEGO is now becomming a bigger part of this world, it's even more
exciting. It boils down to a large company now recognizes this isn't kids
play, but a very important aspect in many adult lives. LEGO is much more
than a toy. It's a community of all types of people.
And since this community seems to be getting stronger, I've felt it's time
to voice myself again.
What better way than with this post. A perfect example of working towards a
single goal with yet another new application.
:)
Have a great day, and build well!
=EO=
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