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I found a simpler solution to JW's posts. I delete them if I see them. If he
improves, fine. If not, in the trash it goes.
Scott Sanburn
Adam Howard wrote:
>
> Followup-To: lugnet.admin.general
>
> This is a Call For Votes (CFV)
>
> After much discussion it has been decided that an open public vote needs to
> be made about this situation. The vote is at the end of this message.
> Please read the Problem Summary and Defense before voting.
>
> Problem Summary, composed by Tim Courtney:
>
> The Problem:
>
> For many months, Jonathan Wilson has been an active member on the LUGNET
> cad-related groups (lugnet.cad.*). Throughout his existence here on
> LUGNET, Jonathan has been repeatedly disrespectful, bothersome, and
> arrogant to the point where he utterly refuses to follow any serious
> suggestions/corrections that group members make. Jonathan's actions have
> been the subject and the catalyst in many upsets, some resulting in all out
> flame wars directed at him.
>
> Here are some examples of the upsets which have been directly caused by
> Jonathan's posting to cad.* groups:
>
> For being rude and disrespectful,
> http://www.lugnet.com/cad/?n=2320
> http://www.lugnet.com/cad/dev/?n=2520
> http://www.lugnet.com/starwars/?n=3213
> http://www.lugnet.com/off-topic/geek/?n=377
>
> For making junk parts and adding no value to the group,
> http://www.lugnet.com/cad/dat/?n=207
> http://www.lugnet.com/cad/dev/?n=1225
> http://www.lugnet.com/cad/dev/?n=1284
> http://www.lugnet.com/cad/dat/parts/?n=218
> http://www.lugnet.com/cad/dat/parts/?n=222
> http://www.lugnet.com/cad/dat/parts/?n=320
> http://www.lugnet.com/cad/dev/org/ldraw/?n=428
> http://www.lugnet.com/cad/dev/org/ldraw/?n=439
>
> For being clueless,
> http://www.lugnet.com/cad/dev/org/ldraw/?n=435
> http://www.lugnet.com/starwars/?n=3283
> http://www.lugnet.com/starwars/?n=1117
>
> For having a bad attitude,
> http://www.lugnet.com/cad/dat/?n=216
> http://www.lugnet.com/cad/dev/?n=1494
> http://www.lugnet.com/cad/dat/parts/?n=321
> http://www.lugnet.com/cad/dev/org/ldraw/?n=439
> http://www.lugnet.com/cad/dat/models/sets/?n=82
>
> For being a pest/nuisance/annoyance,
> http://www.lugnet.com/cad/dev/?n=1494
> http://www.lugnet.com/cad/dev/?n=2382
> http://www.lugnet.com/cad/dev/?n=2433
> http://www.lugnet.com/cad/dev/?n=2490
> http://www.lugnet.com/cad/dat/parts/?n=325
> http://www.lugnet.com/starwars/?n=778
> http://www.lugnet.com/starwars/?n=3190
>
> For posting in annoying and unintelligible lowercase and deleting much-
> needed >-quote markers,
> http://www.lugnet.com/cad/?n=2257
> http://www.lugnet.com/cad/?n=2318
> http://www.lugnet.com/cad/?n=2327
> http://www.lugnet.com/cad/dev/?n=2374
> http://www.lugnet.com/cad/dev/?n=2444
> http://www.lugnet.com/cad/dev/?n=2464
> http://www.lugnet.com/cad/dev/?n=2474
> http://www.lugnet.com/cad/dat/parts/?n=262
> http://www.lugnet.com/cad/dat/parts/?n=275
> http://www.lugnet.com/cad/dat/parts/?n=318
> http://www.lugnet.com/cad/dat/parts/?n=333
> http://www.lugnet.com/cad/dev/org/ldraw/?n=395
> http://www.lugnet.com/cad/dev/org/ldraw/?n=417
> http://www.lugnet.com/starwars/?n=1854
> http://www.lugnet.com/starwars/?n=2406
>
> And finally, for wasting people's time and making them unhappy,
> http://www.lugnet.com/cad/?n=1585
> http://www.lugnet.com/cad/?n=2323
> http://www.lugnet.com/cad/dev/?n=1070
> http://www.lugnet.com/cad/dev/?n=1110
> http://www.lugnet.com/cad/dev/?n=1114
> http://www.lugnet.com/cad/dev/?n=1137
> http://www.lugnet.com/cad/dev/?n=1174
> http://www.lugnet.com/cad/dev/?n=1210
> http://www.lugnet.com/cad/dev/?n=1211
> http://www.lugnet.com/cad/dev/?n=1225
> http://www.lugnet.com/cad/dev/?n=1284
> http://www.lugnet.com/cad/dev/?n=2386
> http://www.lugnet.com/cad/dev/?n=2439
> http://www.lugnet.com/cad/dev/?n=2455
> http://www.lugnet.com/starwars/?n=3286
> http://www.lugnet.com/admin/general/?n=1310
> http://www.lugnet.com/off-topic/geek/?n=378
>
> The above reasons clearly indicate a real problem on our hands.
>
> Jonathan Wilson's posts to LUGNET have defied the general assumed rules of
> posting in such a group. He [has posted] horribly formatted messages with
> atrocious spelling errors, no capitalization of sentences or proper names,
> and no signature. All of which are in the underlying unwritten code of a
> focused development group. He [has] also [placed] demands on other
> contributors,
> such as asking others to make him LDraw parts, asking reasons why something
> isn't released yet, and getting upset that certain scans are not at kl.net
> - just because HE [thought] they should be there.
>
> He [refused] to change his methods despite numerous requests and demands
> from
> many group members. Many group members have posted about Jonathan's
> methods in the group and asked for a change. Jonathan [has ignored] these
> requests [until recently]. Occasionally group members have written
> harsh-toned flames
> directed at Jonathan due to his actions. When flamed, the only thing he
> [has done] is complain or whine about it and then [return] to his usual
> methods. He [has made] no effort whatsoever to correct problems pointed out
> to
> him [until recently]. Jonathan also [has] not [responded] to personal emails
> about his posting
> habits.
>
> Because of these [past] actions, many group members have become incredibly
> annoyed
> at him and it has hindered the progress of the group. I know one person
> who has mailed me saying quote: '...and he's one of the main reasons I
> stopped keeping up with the day-to-day postings on the .cad.* groups...'
> and 'I'll say it again - JW is the main reason I'm not keeping up with the
> ..cad groups right now - JW and all the ill-feelings associated with others
> trying to deal with him.'
>
> The LUGNET Terms of Use <http://www.lugnet.com/admin/terms/> states:
>
> LUGNET includes discussion groups which allow feedback and
> interaction between users. LUGNET and its owners and/or operators
> do not control or censor messages, information, or files delivered
> to discussion groups. It is a condition of your use of the
> discussion groups that you do not:
>
> 1. Restrict or inhibit any other user from using the discussion
> groups.
>
> and:
>
> Although we hope that everyone can play well together, we must
> reserve the right to allow or to refuse access to this site to
> anyone, for any reason, with or without prior warning or explanation.
>
> Though Jonathan [has] not directly [restricted] or [inhibited] the progress
> on the
> discussion groups, he [has made] posting and discussion on cad.* incredibly
> difficult by spawning ill feelings and flame wars.
>
> Because Jonathan has behaved in this manner and refused to take the
> suggestive corrections of many group members seriously, it is time for
> further action.
>
> End of Problem Summary.
>
> Defense, composed by Adam Howard
>
> A few word from Jonathan:
>
> The following is from Jonathan Wilson's post
> <http://www.lugnet.com/cad/dev/?n=2662>
>
> Here is my final word on all of this.
> 1.I will refrain from doing any parts development work except for 1 part
> at a time and i will keep working on that part until it is good enough,
> however long that takes. My first part will be the Baseplate 32 x 32
> Raised With Ramp, followed by the Door 2 x 6 x 7 Frame.
> 2.I will refrain from asking for parts, models, help with parts, models
> etc.
> 3.I will use capital letters (as I have started to do already)
> 4.I will work on getting my large collection of castle set models to the
> OMR standard and I will not submit any models that require custom parts
> (so that means 6090 is out for the moment because of the missing castle
> wall piece, for example).
> 5.I will stop asking stupid questions on any of the lugnet groups
> 6.I promise never to say bad things about another person on this group.
> (If you do not have anything good to say, don't say anything at all)
>
> For reference, here is the reply I got from tore to "that message" on
> .geek.
> Jonathan Wilson wrote:
>
> > > have you done whatever needs to be done (submitted them etc.) for the
> > > belville swing, swing stand, samsonite gear and tile with ball parts?
>
> > I don't know. If I get the time, I will look into my Outbox.
>
> > > what set #s used the samsonite gears?
>
> > Those I have seen had #1 and #3. There are probably some more.
> > See http://www.lugnet.com/pause/search/?query=001-1
>
> > > also what is missing from the curved train track?
> > > just the teeth?
> > > i have this piece for real and may decide to finish it...
>
> > Go ahead. You have my permission.
>
> > /Tore
>
> I am also apologizing to this group, and all the people here for the bad
> things I have said in the past.
> Also on the matter of that post to onyx that has got people mad the post
> should have read:
> Are you going to finish those 8880 wheels that I have been waiting for?
>
> The only problem with all of this is that I do not know if my parts are
> good enough yet.
> I cant find fault with the baseplate 32 x 32 raised with ramp (except
> the corners or course) but that does not mean that there aren't any.
>
> Following taken from Adam Howard's post
> <http://www.lugnet.com/cad/dev/?n=2551>:
>
> He is obviously very enthusiastic about the LDraw
> project. He jumped in before getting both feet wet, but he is learning.
> That may not be the best way to learn a new hobby or craft, but it's his way
> of doing things, and I'm not going to criticize him because he approaches a
> problem differently than me. His 'gimme gimme' attitude is the only thing
> that ever annoys me, but I have a lot of friends with very annoying habits,
> and I chose to ignore them because the good outweigh the bad. Jonathan's
> good traits in my opinion are: enthusiasm, an interest in LDraw, an interest
> in Lego, his parts are getting better, and he is eager to correct them when
> a problem is found- this tells me he really wants to make quality parts and
> is learning how to.
>
> And.
> Following taken from Adam Howard's post
> <http://www.lugnet.com/cad/dev/?n=2572>:
>
> Take a look at the following parts:
> 3899 Town Cup
> 4528 Town Fryingpan
> 4529 Town Saucepan
> 30044 Arched Window
> They all have visible flaws. Three were apparently made by James. Are we
> going to say that James' parts aren't good enough for his project. I am
> going the extremist route here. I believe better quality is demanded now
> than when the project started. Mainly because POV-Ray and LDlite can show
> flaws easily. I believe most new part authors do look at existing parts to
> determine the level of quality they should use, which is why there are a lot
> of questions about quality standards. I think that's one reason Jonathan
> asks so many questions about them. Personally I feel a part should be
> replicated as closely to the original as possible. But when you look at
> some older parts you wonder how far is overboard (for me it's not overboard
> until it's sunk to the bottom). I guess my whole point is... there is no
> set standard for the quality of ldraw parts, the only standard is our voting
> process which catches a lot of mistakes and asks the author to correct them.
> And fundamentally the quality of the parts does matter, but we already have
> a method to check for that.
>
> End Defense.
>
> Please vote only if you have been directly/indirectly affected (positively
> or negatively) by Jonathan's posts (in other words if you don't know who he
> is or what this whole discussion is about please don't vote). And please
> review the Problem Summary and Defense before voting.
>
> PLEASE REPLY ONLY to Adam Howard abhoward10@hotmail.com .
> (Just cut and paste The Vote into a new mailing to Adam at the above email
> before
> answering. Thanks.)
>
> Note: I will not be acting as Judge. I will only be tallying up the votes.
> Along with the final result a list of people who voted and their response
> will be posted to lugnet.admin.general one week after voting has started. A
> 2/3-majority vote is required to pass any of the actions described in this
> vote.
>
> Disclaimer: This vote is a community sponsored vote and has no relation to
> the administrator(s) of LUGNET. This vote is not setting any precedents for
> the LUGNET community.
>
> The Vote (please answer YES or NO, or as indicated otherwise)
>
> Extreme measures:
> 1. Would you personally enjoy the lugnet groups more if Jonathan Wilson's
> posting privileges were revoked from:
> a. All lugnet.* groups
> b. Just lugnet.cad.* groups
> c. Other (please list)
>
> 2. Should Jonathan be banned from posting to the groups you have answered
> YES to in 1 for a period of six months?
>
> Alternative:
> 3. Should Jonathan be placed on probation for a period of 6 months as an
> alternative to revoking posting privileges?
> Violation of probation would be any new post by Jonathan that results in at
> least one flame message being sent by someone in the community in relation
> to any of the points discussed in the Problem Summary. Violation of
> probation would result in immediately revoking posting privileges for a
> period of six months.
>
> Thank you for your vote.
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