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Hey all,
Over the past 3 weeks or so I have been talking with Kadee quality products
about the possibilities of making fully functional Magne-Matic couplers for Lego
trains. They have kindly asked me to gather some data from you concerning this
possibility so I have made a questioner for you to fill out. This is an amazing
opportunity to further our hobby so be honest and detailed in your answers.
Also please stay on topic so I can get the info to Kadee more quickly.
Here is a site that explains how the couplers work:
http://www.kadee.com/animation/c1.htm
Here’s a picture of what couplers would look like on Lego parts. The couplers made for Lego trains would be more refined but this gives you an idea. http://www.maj.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=214577
Feel free to use photos and links in your answers
1. How do you mount your couplers to the wheel sets “trucks”?
2. Do you have any interest in functional Magne-Matic couplers for Lego trains? No Lego modifications would be necessary.
3. Would you prefer the original pin style mount, Technic axles, or Technic hole?
4. How many of your trains would you outfit with couplers?
5. How much do you think is a reasonable price per train car (2 couplers)?
6. Are there any special properties you would like to see incorporated into a Lego compatible Kadee coupler?
From both Kadee and myself thank you,
OnDrew Hartigan
CABR- http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=109777
p.s. please forward this to your perspective clubs.
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In lugnet.trains, Ondrew Hartigan wrote:
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Hey all,
Over the past 3 weeks or so I have been talking with Kadee quality products
about the possibilities of making fully functional Magne-Matic couplers for
Lego trains. They have kindly asked me to gather some data from you concerning
this possibility so I have made a questioner for you to fill out. This is an
amazing opportunity to further our hobby so be honest and detailed in your
answers.
|
I guess there really isn’t anything
new under the sun....
I wonder if the guys at Kadee are having deja-vu all over again. I pitched this
idea to them about 4 years ago, and even went so far as sending them LEGO
motors, trucks, couplers, and an assortment of bricks with which to experiment.
I even brought the results Kadee send back to me to BricksWest 2002 and showed
them to Brad Justus, the head of LEGO Direct at the time. Nothing much came of
the idea.
The fact is that one can use Kadee couplers right now and very easily by
simply using a small nut and bolt attaching to
this element. That pretty much was
Kadee’s solution 4 years ago.
At the time, I thought that a joint venture between Kadee and TLG would have
been the best solution, with Kadee creating a pin connection as a part of their
coupler made especially for TLG, so that the coupler could be considered
“LEGO” or “TLG endorsed”.
The bottom line is that Kadee couplers are non-LEGO. If one uses non-LEGO
couplers, why not non-LEGO trucks? Track? This may seem like a good idea to
the hardcore LEGO train fan, but might come off as a bit too impure to the GP.
I came away with the notion that, if TLG wasn’t somehow on board with the idea,
it would never take off. And even I, who was SO passionate about the idea years
ago, never even bothered to use Kadee couplers. I use rare-earth magnets with
LEGO magnets instead, and they work great. Because I’m not holding my breath
that TLG will choose to make any significant investment in the 9 volt line.
JOHN
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> I came away with the notion that, if TLG wasn't somehow on board with the
> idea,
> it would never take off. And even I, who was SO passionate about the idea
> years
> ago, never even bothered to use Kadee couplers. I use rare-earth magnets
> with
> LEGO magnets instead, and they work great. Because I'm not holding my
> breath
> that TLG will choose to make {any} significant investment in the 9 volt
> line.
>
> [JOHN]
Amen.
When LEGO decides to "invest" again in 9volt and maybe make new tracks,
etc., I'll start regaining some interest. Until then, I'm persuing other
themes of interest with more passion that trains.
SPACE!
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In lugnet.trains, Rob Hendrix wrote:
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Amen.
When LEGO decides to “invest” again in 9volt and maybe make new tracks,
etc., I’ll start regaining some interest. Until then, I’m persuing other
themes of interest with more passion that trains.
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*****!
(Where is a moderator when you need one?)
>:^D
JOHN
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In lugnet.trains, Rob Hendrix wrote:
> > I came away with the notion that, if TLG wasn't somehow on board with the
> > idea,
> > it would never take off. And even I, who was SO passionate about the idea
> > years
> > ago, never even bothered to use Kadee couplers. I use rare-earth magnets
> > with
> > LEGO magnets instead, and they work great. Because I'm not holding my
> > breath
> > that TLG will choose to make {any} significant investment in the 9 volt
> > line.
> >
> > [JOHN]
>
> Amen.
>
> When LEGO decides to "invest" again in 9volt and maybe make new tracks,
> etc., I'll start regaining some interest. Until then, I'm persuing other
> themes of interest with more passion that trains.
>
> SPACE!
I feel similarly to these sentiments. I have 8mm scale trains that work OK with
the 9V system and have worked OK with the 12V system, which had better
functionality. I'm taking a break from exhibiting the 9V layouts in order to
pursue new ideas, including an 8mm scale London Underground train for the 12V
system (more appropriate as it has conductor rails). I could equal the above
rebellion by adding PNEUMATIC ROBOTS! :-) I also want to have more time for
building the Lego community here in the UK, as my layouts were born from 9 years
of going it alone in 8mm scale and I have now found others on the planet with
the same interest!
I have about 18 engines and over 30 wagons, so I would need at least 50 coupling
sets. I'm not about to spend $250 on new couplings, especially because I run a
lot of permanent wagon rakes with technic 5L liftarms instead of magnetic
couplings. This is to improve reliability by reducing the risk of wagons
getting dropped and the train crashing into them the next time it comes round
the circuit!
Regarding investments in the 9V system, I hear rumours about a development of
the train system for next year, but I'm not optimistic yet. I'll have to see
firstly if there is anything new, then if it's compatible with the way I use the
existing 9V track. For example, I couldn't use big chunky point motors due to
loading gauge restrictions. Neither could I use any extension of the electrical
system other than a current boost, since I already use a dual 3 Amp power supply
instead. I also think 56-stud radius curves would be a waste of space unless
half and quarter straights were also available. I'm also sceptical about any
automation of the system. Signals with isolating tracks (using the 12V system
ideas with 9V track pieces and standard feed wires) would be more interesting
though.
At the moment I draw my line of purity at the feed wires. Beyond that, the
electrics are fair game because a 9V controller doesn't give me enough current
for 4 motors. I don't want to use any non-Lego parts on the trains though
(except BBB wheels, sadly another area of TLG under-investment). I think these
couplers will have no closer relationship with TLG than BBB wheels do. I think
the wheels are more easily compatible with making up trains of vehicles from
several people - new couplers would require another standard when we already
have plenty of standards!
Mark
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In lugnet.trains, Rob Hendrix wrote:
> > I came away with the notion that, if TLG wasn't somehow on board with the
> > idea,
> > it would never take off. And even I, who was SO passionate about the idea
> > years
> > ago, never even bothered to use Kadee couplers. I use rare-earth magnets
> > with
> > LEGO magnets instead, and they work great. Because I'm not holding my
> > breath
> > that TLG will choose to make {any} significant investment in the 9 volt
> > line.
> >
> > [JOHN]
>
> Amen.
>
> When LEGO decides to "invest" again in 9volt and maybe make new tracks,
> etc., I'll start regaining some interest. Until then, I'm persuing other
> themes of interest with more passion that trains.
The idea of Kadee couplers for Lego trains is a fantastic idea. This the only
short coming of Lego trains. You can't shunt them. I've ben trying
unsuccessfully to design a alternate coupler from Lego parts but no luck. I
would equip every piece of Lego train equipment I have with Kadess if possible.
I hope that if the Kadee makes them they make them available through local hobby
shops and not just through Lego Shop at Home
> SPACE!
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> Feel free to use photos and links in your answers
>
> 1. How do you mount your couplers to the wheel sets “trucks”?
I normally use the standard magnet holders clipped into the buffer bars
from the top.
Occasionally, I use a 2x3 plate with a hole.
> 2. Do you have any interest in functional Magne-Matic couplers for Lego trains? No Lego modifications would be necessary.
Id probably get a few sets but that's about it.
Most of my trains run as a set but I admit they would be nice at times :)
> 3. Would you prefer the original pin style mount, Technic axles, or Technic hole?
I'd prefer the pin style but I expect there will be patent issues. a
hole is the next best option as I can use a half peg.
> 4. How many of your trains would you outfit with couplers?
Not many, I'd mainly use them as and when I need them.
> 5. How much do you think is a reasonable price per train car (2 couplers)?
£5-10 (About $8-16)
> 6. Are there any special properties you would like to see incorporated into a Lego compatible Kadee coupler?
Nothing I can think of in the coupler itself. A "clip on" uncoupler
(maybe electronic) would be good.
Hope this helps.
--
Dean Earley, Dee (dean@earlsoft.co.uk)
irc: irc://irc.blitzed.org/
web: http://personal.earlsoft.co.uk
phone: +44 (0)780 8369596
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In lugnet.trains, Ondrew Hartigan wrote:
> Hey all,
> Over the past 3 weeks or so I have been talking with Kadee quality products
> about the possibilities of making fully functional Magne-Matic couplers for Lego
> trains. They have kindly asked me to gather some data from you concerning this
> possibility so I have made a questioner for you to fill out. This is an amazing
> opportunity to further our hobby so be honest and detailed in your answers.
> Also please stay on topic so I can get the info to Kadee more quickly.
YEEEHAAAA!!!!!
> Feel free to use photos and links in your answers
>
> 1. How do you mount your couplers to the wheel sets “trucks”?
A 2x3 round end plate stuck to the end of the truck.
> 2. Do you have any interest in functional Magne-Matic couplers for Lego trains? No Lego modifications would be necessary.
I shorely do! Automatic switching anyone? Yipee!!! Plus, it'll just plum look
cool. Not Lego, granted, but they're not gonna make knuckle couplers anytime
soon.
> 3. Would you prefer the original pin style mount, Technic axles, or Technic hole?
Technic pin or hole.
> 4. How many of your trains would you outfit with couplers?
My "masterpieces." Depending on the cost, maybe as many as I could.
> 5. How much do you think is a reasonable price per train car (2 couplers)?
Under $2 preferably, under $5 definitely.
> 6. Are there any special properties you would like to see incorporated into a Lego compatible Kadee coupler?
Stud(s) on the coupler proper would be nice, though not necessary. More
important perhaps, would be making them a certain number of studs across, so
they could be hidden (F style diesel noses come to mind) easily.
Hope this works out, best of luck, and you rock!!!
-Stefan-
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OnDrew Hartigan wrote:
> 1. How do you mount your couplers to the wheel sets “trucks”?
LEGO buffer beam or the 2*3 plate usually
> 2. Do you have any interest in functional Magne-Matic couplers for Lego
> trains? No Lego modifications would be necessary.
YES! Finally shunting as real as it gets! ;)
Also an idea : make a decoupler unit that would easily attach to LEGO track!
> 3. Would you prefer the original pin style mount, Technic axles, or
> Technic hole?
I'd say original style at first, perhaps later Technic hole (hole is more
flexible than axle IMHO)
> 4. How many of your trains would you outfit with couplers?
Depends on 5 mostly... and on my fixed length passenger consists I already
used fixed couplers so no need there.
> 5. How much do you think is a reasonable price per train car (2
> couplers)?
Around 3-4 Euro/set (let's hope we can do a pretty much normal price in the
EU, instead of the inflated prices most US model railroading stuff that
gets imported carry) would sound reasonable.
--
Jan-Albert van Ree | http://www.vanree.net/brickpiles/
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OnDrew Hartigan wrote:
> Feel free to use photos and links in your answers
>
> 1. How do you mount your couplers to the wheel sets “trucks”?
On the buffers or using a 2x3 with hole plate. Which ever fits the
situation at hand.
> 2. Do you have any interest in functional Magne-Matic couplers for Lego trains? No Lego modifications would be necessary.
Yes and no. In the short term I have no desire to replace all the
coupling on all my cars because that would be a sizable expense. In the
long term, maybe. It depends on the price and how much trouble the
magnets or my technic couplers turn out to be.
> 3. Would you prefer the original pin style mount, Technic axles, or Technic hole?
Pin or hole.
> 4. How many of your trains would you outfit with couplers?
If I were to do it, eventually I would do them all, but I am not certain
that this is very likely (see response to 2)
> 5. How much do you think is a reasonable price per train car (2 couplers)?
When LEGO sold buffers and magnets as a parts pack, they were 3.50 for a
set of two, so I would hope that the Kadee couplers wouldn't be more
than $2 or $3 for a set of two.
> 6. Are there any special properties you would like to see incorporated into a Lego compatible Kadee coupler?
I wouldn't know what to ask for... Some way to do automatic decoupling?
Chris
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Christopher Masi wrote:
> I wouldn't know what to ask for... Some way to do automatic
> decoupling?
Kadee means automatic decoupling with either static magnets or
electromagnets (static magnets work because you have to stop the train with
the coupler over the magnet for it to function). Presumably these would
include delayed uncoupling which allows you to stop on an uncoupling magnet,
partially decouple, push the decoupled car into a siding, and then reverse,
leaving the car behind (this means complex switching can often be done with
just a handful of uncoupling magnets).
Frank
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OnDrew Hartigan wrote:
> Here’s a picture of what couplers would look like on Lego parts. http://www.maj.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=214577
OnDrew,
Did this mod take much work, or did you just stick a technic axle
through a hole that was already present? If there is already a hole
there, do we really need custom made couplers?
Oh yeah, how much are regular Kadee couplers?
Chris
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> 1. How do you mount your couplers to the wheel sets “trucks”?
95% are standard Lego train 9V buffer beams (or the new snowplough buffers on
some locomotives).
Some models (mostly my space trains) use 2x3 plate-with-hole pieces to hold the
magnet clip. In one case I used space magnet clips, but that was between a
locomotive and tender so I wouldn't want it to uncouple. For me, new couplings
would either have to work on standard buffer beams (preferred) or wholly
substitute for them; preferably they'd work on snowplough buffer beams too. If
they didn't work for other attachment methods I wouldn't be bothered.
> 2. Do you have any interest in functional Magne-Matic couplers for Lego trains? No Lego modifications would be necessary.
Yes, they sound very useful.
> 3. Would you prefer the original pin style mount, Technic axles, or Technic hole?
Original pin mount, as a preference. Using an axle or pin in a technic hole
would make a looser fit which could work itself apart. Also I wouldn't want to
use grey technic bits around the otherwise black coupling.
> 4. How many of your trains would you outfit with couplers?
Probably all of them, eventually. That's around 60 pairs. Though initially,
and depending on price, I might just equip locomotives and then carry spares for
the first wagon / carriage in each train, so that would be about 20 pairs.
> 5. How much do you think is a reasonable price per train car (2 couplers)?
$2.00. $3.50 would be an absolute maximum, given current exchange rates from
the UK. At the higher price I'd just be buying a few for my locomotives and the
first truck in a train.
Bear in mind that you would have to pay this on top of the price of Lego buffer
beams. I'd still prefer to use original Lego buffer beams though than a cheap
replacement.
> 6. Are there any special properties you would like to see incorporated into a Lego compatible Kadee coupler?
i. I'd like to see it all in black, to match the Lego ones.
ii. Coupled trucks should ride exactly the same distance apart as with current
magnets - so a mix of these and ordinary magnets doesn't look odd.
iii. Detailing should be simple and minimal. I don't want it to look like a
particular region or nation's style of coupling, nor to have elaborate chain or
spring detail moulded into it as that would look out of place with the rest of
the Lego.
iv. It would need a Lego-compatible track-mounted uncoupler plate, too.
Jason Railton
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Jason J Railton wrote:
> iii. Detailing should be simple and minimal. I don't want it to look
> like a particular region or nation's style of coupling, nor to have
> elaborate chain or spring detail moulded into it as that would look
> out of place with the rest of the Lego.
My guess is that we'll get detail, they would probably just use the O-scale
knuckle parts. Other detail will include the "brake hose" which is the pin
that is moved by the uncoupling magnet.
Frank
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