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As I get closer to actually buying a house, I've been doing some more
thinking about a future garden railroad. How well suited to a permanent
outdoor setup is the Lego track? If it isn't suitable, is the guage
close enough to any model railroad guage which could be used for track
(of course one could always handlay track to the Lego guage if
necessary)? I know it might anethema to mix Lego with non-Lego, but I
don't want to risk my Lego track if it won't be suitable.
--
Frank Filz
-----------------------------
Work: mailto:ffilz@us.ibm.com
Home: mailto:ffilz@mindspring.com
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Frank Filz wrote in message <377B9AD9.2620@mindspring.com>...
> As I get closer to actually buying a house, I've been doing some more
> thinking about a future garden railroad. How well suited to a permanent
> outdoor setup is the Lego track? If it isn't suitable, is the guage
> close enough to any model railroad guage which could be used for track
> (of course one could always handlay track to the Lego guage if
> necessary)? I know it might anethema to mix Lego with non-Lego, but I
> don't want to risk my Lego track if it won't be suitable.
LEGO tracks are not fit for outside usage and as far as I know there is no
standard gauge close enough to use instead. Duplo trains will do better
though :-)
Eric
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>
> LEGO tracks are not fit for outside usage and as far as I know there is no
> standard gauge close enough to use instead. Duplo trains will do better
> though :-)
Eric, is this hard earned experence?
Please, share the details. I'd think that they would be OK outside...what
happenes? do they rust? I don't think that they'd melt/distort too much over
a year or so...Anyone got any real experence?
All that I have read on garden railways in OO and so on use plastic/nickle
silver track...and I don't know what the conductor part of the lego rail is
made of.
(I know the plastic is ABS with a UV stabalizer...I'd expect it to last 5 or so
years outside under moderate sunshine)
James
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James Powell wrote in message ...
>
> >
> > LEGO tracks are not fit for outside usage and as far as I know there is no
> > standard gauge close enough to use instead. Duplo trains will do better
> > though :-)
>
>
> Eric, is this hard earned experence?
>
> Please, share the details. I'd think that they would be OK outside...what
> happenes? do they rust? I don't think that they'd melt/distort too much • over
> a year or so...Anyone got any real experence?
Sorry, no actual experience. I just *expect* them to rust from rain and
distort from sun heat.
If you don't care wasting your track over a year or so it may do ofcourse.
Eric
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You could do what LL USA did-- lay your own track. Make it the same gauge as
9v, and use O scale rails. Points might get tricky, but I think that would be
the way to go.
-John
Eric Brok wrote:
> James Powell wrote in message ...
> >
> > >
> > > LEGO tracks are not fit for outside usage and as far as I know there is no
> > > standard gauge close enough to use instead. Duplo trains will do better
> > > though :-)
> >
> >
> > Eric, is this hard earned experence?
> >
> > Please, share the details. I'd think that they would be OK outside...what
> > happenes? do they rust? I don't think that they'd melt/distort too much • over
> > a year or so...Anyone got any real experence?
>
>
> Sorry, no actual experience. I just *expect* them to rust from rain and
> distort from sun heat.
> If you don't care wasting your track over a year or so it may do ofcourse.
>
> Eric
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I'm sure this has been brought up before, but this brings up an important
point: is anything/method that any LL does to display a model considered
"pure"?
It seems unlikely that in laying track in LL Carlsbad that TLG actually made
track but rather purchased it outright. Maybe you can find out where they got
it so that it would be much closer to "pure". If someone finds out, let us
know cuz I'm sure such a company would love our business.
I wouldn't fault anyone for not using real Lego-brand track outside. I'd want
the track to last awhile. Besides, train set boxes say, "For indoor use only",
so I take it that all components that can be kept inside should be kept inside
and all that can be used suitably for outside can be used there.
In lugnet.trains, John Neal writes:
> You could do what LL USA did-- lay your own track. Make it the same gauge as
> 9v, and use O scale rails. Points might get tricky, but I think that would be
> the way to go.
>
> -John
>
> Eric Brok wrote:
>
> > James Powell wrote in message ...
> > >
> > > >
> > > > LEGO tracks are not fit for outside usage and as far as I know there is no
> > > > standard gauge close enough to use instead. Duplo trains will do better
> > > > though :-)
> > >
> > >
> > > Eric, is this hard earned experence?
> > >
> > > Please, share the details. I'd think that they would be OK outside...what
> > > happenes? do they rust? I don't think that they'd melt/distort too much • over
> > > a year or so...Anyone got any real experence?
> >
> >
> > Sorry, no actual experience. I just *expect* them to rust from rain and
> > distort from sun heat.
> > If you don't care wasting your track over a year or so it may do ofcourse.
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In lugnet.trains, Tom McDonald writes:
> I'm sure this has been brought up before, but this brings up an important
> point: is anything/method that any LL does to display a model considered
> "pure"?
>
> It seems unlikely that in laying track in LL Carlsbad that TLG actually made
> track but rather purchased it outright. Maybe you can find out where they got
> it so that it would be much closer to "pure". If someone finds out, let us
> know cuz I'm sure such a company would love our business.
>
> I wouldn't fault anyone for not using real Lego-brand track outside. I'd want
> the track to last awhile. Besides, train set boxes say, "For indoor use only",
> so I take it that all components that can be kept inside should be kept inside
> and all that can be used suitably for outside can be used there.
>
> In lugnet.trains, John Neal writes:
> > You could do what LL USA did-- lay your own track. Make it the same gauge as
> > 9v, and use O scale rails. Points might get tricky, but I think that would • be
> > the way to go.
> >
> > -John
> >
> > Eric Brok wrote:
> >
> > > James Powell wrote in message ...
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > LEGO tracks are not fit for outside usage and as far as I know there is • no
> > > > > standard gauge close enough to use instead. Duplo trains will do better
> > > > > though :-)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Eric, is this hard earned experence?
> > > >
> > > > Please, share the details. I'd think that they would be OK outside...what
> > > > happenes? do they rust? I don't think that they'd melt/distort too much • over
> > > > a year or so...Anyone got any real experence?
> > >
> > >
> > > Sorry, no actual experience. I just *expect* them to rust from rain and
> > > distort from sun heat.
> > > If you don't care wasting your track over a year or so it may do ofcourse.
On thing that might deture you from using your LEGO trains outside. Is that
the motor might get gunked up. In other words get a lot of dirt in the motor.
If you look this site http://www-public.tu-
bs.de:8080/~rbeneke/lego/event_3/event_3.html it mentions that they used 12v
trains but they were getting dirty.
Dave
(Member of the PNLTC)
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In article <FEEoGy.50y@lugnet.com>, Eric Brok <brok@fcjsvc.hvu.nl>
writes
>
> James Powell wrote in message ...
> >
> > >
> > > LEGO tracks are not fit for outside usage and as far as I know there is no
> > > standard gauge close enough to use instead. Duplo trains will do better
> > > though :-)
> >
> >
> > Eric, is this hard earned experence?
> >
> > Please, share the details. I'd think that they would be OK outside...what
> > happenes? do they rust? I don't think that they'd melt/distort too much • over
> > a year or so...Anyone got any real experence?
>
>
>
> Sorry, no actual experience. I just *expect* them to rust from rain and
> distort from sun heat.
> If you don't care wasting your track over a year or so it may do ofcourse.
>
> Eric
>
>
I also have no experience of outdoor models, but I think the main
problem is the plastic, and the rail joints. The plastic will suffer in
the sun, and the joints will be in constant motion, as the metal will be
constantly expanding & contracting as the temperature varies. This will
eventually lead to the connections breaking down.
Nickel silver in long lengths is the best material, as there are fewer
joints, and nickel oxide conducts electricity :-)
I suggest making a track gauge for the correct Lego width, and making
your own, using model railway materials. Also bear in mind that if you
have long runs of track, you will have to add additional power feeds: 9V
doesn't go very far :-)
--
Tony Priestman
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In lugnet.trains, Tony Priestman writes:
> (snip)
> I suggest making a track gauge for the correct Lego width, and making
> your own, using model railway materials. Also bear in mind that if you
> have long runs of track, you will have to add additional power feeds: 9V
> doesn't go very far :-)
> --
> Tony Priestman
from PNLTC's show experience, I can attest that one can operate with loops of
90 feet or more using one set of track leads -- all with no noticeable drop in
performance. Does this qualify as a "horse's mouth" answer? :)
dan parker, PNLTC
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Dan Parker wrote in message ...
> In lugnet.trains, Tony Priestman writes:
> > (snip)
> > I suggest making a track gauge for the correct Lego width, and making
> > your own, using model railway materials. Also bear in mind that if you
> > have long runs of track, you will have to add additional power feeds: 9V
> > doesn't go very far :-)
> > --
> > Tony Priestman
> from PNLTC's show experience, I can attest that one can operate with loops • of
> 90 feet or more using one set of track leads -- all with no noticeable drop • in
> performance. Does this qualify as a "horse's mouth" answer? :)
Hm, that's interesting, because I had noticed trains slowing down on the
other side of my 4'x6' table. But maybe I'm imagining things, or maybe it's
not level enough. Was that with a single motor on the track, or more than
one? Two motors will essentially double the voltage drop (twice the current
being drawn). My primary engines are all dual powered (partly because I've
got the motors, partly for appearance, partly for performance on grades).
Frank
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Frank Filz wrote:
>
> Dan Parker wrote in message ...
> > from PNLTC's show experience, I can attest that one can operate with loops • of
> > 90 feet or more using one set of track leads -- all with no noticeable drop • in
> > performance. Does this qualify as a "horse's mouth" answer? :)
>
> Hm, that's interesting, because I had noticed trains slowing down on the
> other side of my 4'x6' table. But maybe I'm imagining things, or maybe it's
> not level enough. Was that with a single motor on the track, or more than
> one? Two motors will essentially double the voltage drop (twice the current
> being drawn). My primary engines are all dual powered (partly because I've
> got the motors, partly for appearance, partly for performance on grades).
>
> Frank
I have to side with Frank on this one... run a 25 car train with 2 2
motor engines and you will see a speed drop on the far side of a 20 foot
loop. (see my apt pictures to see the layout I'm talking about, it's not
that big). Perhaps PNLTC is running those wimpy euro-trains with only
3-4 2 axle cars instead of REAL trains. :-)
I put power leads every 10 feet of track or so to combat it.
--
Larry Pieniazek larryp@novera.com http://my.voyager.net/lar
- - - Web Application Integration! http://www.novera.com
fund Lugnet(tm): http://www.ebates.com/ Member ref: lar, 1/2 $$ to
lugnet.
NOTE: I have left CTP, effective 18 June 99, and my CTP email
will not work after then. Please switch to my Novera ID.
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In article <378946E9.C506EA83@voyager.net>, Larry Pieniazek
<lar@voyager.net> writes
>
> I have to side with Frank on this one... run a 25 car train with 2 2
> motor engines and you will see a speed drop on the far side of a 20 foot
> loop. (see my apt pictures to see the layout I'm talking about, it's not
> that big). Perhaps PNLTC is running those wimpy euro-trains with only
> 3-4 2 axle cars instead of REAL trains. :-)
>
> I put power leads every 10 feet of track or so to combat it.
Yes. My model railway experience was that multiple feeds work better.
And with outdoor (semi)permanent track there are other factors, such as
the deterioration in quality of the connections between track sections
when they aren't disassembled very often, and the general dirt which
will accumulate on the rail surface.
And hey, we'd all like to run 25 cars; you shouldn't make fun of the
train challenged :-)
--
Tony Priestman
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Frank Filz wrote:
> As I get closer to actually buying a house, I've been doing some more
> thinking about a future garden railroad. How well suited to a permanent
> outdoor setup is the Lego track? If it isn't suitable, is the guage
> close enough to any model railroad guage which could be used for track
> (of course one could always handlay track to the Lego guage if
> necessary)? I know it might anethema to mix Lego with non-Lego, but I
> don't want to risk my Lego track if it won't be suitable.
I heard although can't be sure that LEGOLAND Windsor used G-Scale Track
for their trains - therefore it may be possible that their track width
may be a different size to the size they sell in sets. I'm currently
trying to finish my OO layout in my loft so I have a lot of trackage
information: A company called Peco sells a huge variety of track of
different gauge and has also created a system called Individulay which
means you buy the rails, sleepers and ties separately and build it
yourself - I think it's worth a look.
What is LEGO Gauge anyway, the exact distance between the rails?
--
Carbon 60
ICQ # 5643170
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Carbon 60 wrote:
> Frank Filz wrote:
> > As I get closer to actually buying a house, I've been doing some more
> > thinking about a future garden railroad. How well suited to a permanent
> > outdoor setup is the Lego track? If it isn't suitable, is the guage
> > close enough to any model railroad guage which could be used for track
> > (of course one could always handlay track to the Lego guage if
> > necessary)? I know it might anethema to mix Lego with non-Lego, but I
> > don't want to risk my Lego track if it won't be suitable.
>
> I heard although can't be sure that LEGOLAND Windsor used G-Scale Track
> for their trains - therefore it may be possible that their track width
> may be a different size to the size they sell in sets. I'm currently
> trying to finish my OO layout in my loft so I have a lot of trackage
> information: A company called Peco sells a huge variety of track of
> different gauge and has also created a system called Individulay which
> means you buy the rails, sleepers and ties separately and build it
> yourself - I think it's worth a look.
>
> What is LEGO Gauge anyway, the exact distance between the rails?
I measure a skosh over 1.5". BTW, do you mean "Piko"?
-John
>
>
> --
> Carbon 60
> ICQ # 5643170
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John Neal wrote:
> Carbon 60 said:
> > A company called Peco
> BTW, do you mean "Piko"?
Both are valid names in the MR bizgame.
--
Larry Pieniazek larryp@novera.com http://my.voyager.net/lar
- - - Web Application Integration! http://www.novera.com
fund Lugnet(tm): http://www.ebates.com/ Member ref: lar, 1/2 $$ to
lugnet.
NOTE: I have left CTP, effective 18 June 99, and my CTP email
will not work after then. Please switch to my Novera ID.
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Larry Pieniazek wrote:
>
> John Neal wrote:
> > Carbon 60 said:
> > > A company called Peco
> > BTW, do you mean "Piko"?
>
> Both are valid names in the MR bizgame.
Well Peco is British and has invented many of the model railway
standards.
--
Carbon 60
ICQ # 5643170
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Carbon 60 wrote:
>
> Larry Pieniazek wrote:
> >
> > John Neal wrote:
> > > Carbon 60 said:
> > > > A company called Peco
> > > BTW, do you mean "Piko"?
> >
> > Both are valid names in the MR bizgame.
>
> Well Peco is British and has invented many of the model railway
> standards.
c /many of the /some of the less important / and I agree. :-)
--
Larry Pieniazek larryp@novera.com http://my.voyager.net/lar
- - - Web Application Integration! http://www.novera.com
fund Lugnet(tm): http://www.ebates.com/ Member ref: lar, 1/2 $$ to
lugnet.
NOTE: I have left CTP, effective 18 June 99, and my CTP email
will not work after then. Please switch to my Novera ID.
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Larry Pieniazek wrote:
> c /many of the /some of the less important / and I agree. :-)
'I don't get it.'
Back to the subject - the track width is 1.5 inches which puts it
between O Gauge and 1 Gauge so you will have to make your own track or
modify ready-made track and turnouts.
--
Carbon 60
ICQ # 5643170
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Carbon 60 wrote:
>
> Larry Pieniazek wrote:
> > c /many of the /some of the less important / and I agree. :-)
>
> 'I don't get it.'
Peco invented OO, no? How important is that, really?
I'd say HO, N, Mantua couplers, Kaydee couplers and command control are
all more important. Peco invented none of those, I don't think.
--
Larry Pieniazek larryp@novera.com http://my.voyager.net/lar
- - - Web Application Integration! http://www.novera.com
fund Lugnet(tm): http://www.ebates.com/ Member ref: lar, 1/2 $$ to
lugnet.
NOTE: I have left CTP, effective 18 June 99, and my CTP email
will not work after then. Please switch to my Novera ID.
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.trains, Larry Pieniazek writes:
> Carbon 60 wrote:
> >
> > Larry Pieniazek wrote:
> > > c /many of the /some of the less important / and I agree. :-)
> >
> > 'I don't get it.'
>
> Peco invented OO, no? How important is that, really?
>
> I'd say HO, N, Mantua couplers, Kaydee couplers and command control are
> all more important. Peco invented none of those, I don't think.
Um? By volume, OO is bigger than HO. They Invented 2 different types of OO
couplers, and were the first with a large (mass produced) scale track system.
(which is a standard throughout the world...go into most good hobbyshops and
you will see Peco track)
Command Control was invented by GE, and the rest was an attempt to make a
american style coupler that worked. (and I'd hardly call non Kadee couplers
have much on the way of working...)
HO is a german invention, and OOO predates N :)
James
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James Powell wrote:
> Um? By volume, OO is bigger than HO.
Um, what are you talking about when you say by volume? Are you saying
that the number of OO modelers is larger than the number of HO modelers,
or what? I don't think so.
HO is used everywhere except in the UK and has thousands of different
manufacturers so I don't know what you're getting on about. Stop being
so UK provincial.
OO was an interesting footnote in the history of scales but it's not
relevant to the mainstream hobby any more.
--
Larry Pieniazek larryp@novera.com http://my.voyager.net/lar
- - - Web Application Integration! http://www.novera.com
fund Lugnet(tm): http://www.ebates.com/ Member ref: lar, 1/2 $$ to
lugnet.
NOTE: I have left CTP, effective 18 June 99, and my CTP email
will not work after then. Please switch to my Novera ID.
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Carbon 60 wrote in message <37925E49.E0FC6D5D@bigfoot.com>...
> Larry Pieniazek wrote:
> >
> > John Neal wrote:
> > > Carbon 60 said:
> > > > A company called Peco
> > > BTW, do you mean "Piko"?
> >
> > Both are valid names in the MR bizgame.
>
> Well Peco is British and has invented many of the model railway
> standards.
>
> --
> Carbon 60
> ICQ # 5643170
Not only that, but its the good stuff! Lot better than that Lego stuff.
Oops, wrong group!
--
Have fun!
John
AUCTION Page (15 Sealed Space sets sold - more soon!)
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/2-many-toys/
TRADE Page http://www114.pair.com/ig88/lego/index.htm
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