Subject:
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Re: We'll just wave...
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Fri, 28 Dec 2012 17:42:50 GMT
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Viewed:
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5975 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek wrote:
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, David Koudys wrote:
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal wrote:
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, David Koudys wrote:
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We can’t eliminate the issue of someone killing someone else--that’ll
never happen. However, as your president stated, knowing this, we can’t
just say, ‘oh well, since we can’t eliminate it, let’s do nothing...’
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The problem is that, just doing something can and usually is worse than
doing nothing.
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Really? Trying to limit the carnage and death of your fellow citizens is
worse than doing nothing?
you’re beter than that.
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Logical fallacy alert... “We must do SOMETHING!!!!” “THIS is ‘something’”
... “therefore we must do THIS”
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Not where I was going at all--you jumped there. No fallacy.
We must do something rational, proven and/or educated.
I’ve demonstrated that other countries, other scenarios, other well-educated
persons, have ‘done something’ and these ‘somethings’ have reduced
carnage/killing/murder/mayhem.
Because you don’t like what these ‘somethings’ entail, you find ways of
dismissing them.
It boils down to this--you (and many other americans) love your guns. With that
slant, anyone or anything that talks of reducing your access to your guns is, in
your mind, wrong. You will go to great exceedingly irrational lengths to make
sure you can have access to whatever guns you so desire. In almost any other
aspect of life, I wouldn’t care about your irrational love for an object.
However, in this particular case, (and I can’t think of any other instance where
this applies) the object of your over-the-top lust has caused/is causing/will
cause again, the murder of thousands of your fellow citizens per year.
So it really is a simple equation that most other countries have figured out
when massacres occur--
Reduce the access to guns and, invariably, reduce the murder rate due to guns.
Reducing access to guns also has the added bonus of virtually ELIMINATING
massacres. Countries that implemented gun control after a mass shootings NEVER
HAD a repeat of a mass shooting.
You can’t get around that. You’ll bring up knives and cars and whatevers...
Those are the true fallacies--throwing out irrelevancies to make it sound like
‘I need MY gun and here’s the proof!’ (like the old axiom, ‘let’s prove that
god exists. First, assume there’s a god...’)
And then you’ll quote the constitution and have a gander at what the founding
fathers wrote 200+ years ago--y’know, when the most powerful hand-held weapon
was a musket.
And, I might remind you that these founding fathers, and these ‘holy writs’ also
stated that a negro was 3/5’s of a person. So forgive me for not putting too
much credence in how you want to apply this 200+ yr old document to modern
times.
Your civilization is unravelling. Mass shootings are almost a common occurance.
I can’t remember when the last time we saw splashed across the front page--man
goes on rampage--kills 26 people with a knife! THe very sad irony (as we all
know) is that during the presentation from the NRA (that my 3.5 yr old could
have done better), a guy takes a gun and shoots people. DURING the NRA
rebuttal.
Seriously, give your collective heads a shake. It’s time to grow up and put
away your security blanket. It’s time to be adults here. Have a look at the
studies. Have a real look at what other countries implemented. Have a true
discussion on what is needed and what isn’t for your country.
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Often, the right thing to do is, “nothing”, that is, don’t change the system
as a whole in response to a minor upset.
Also, I am reminded of Rahm “never let a good crisis go to waste” Emmanuel.
Everyone’s running around proposing all sorts of new laws
Where is the outrage over the hundreds of children killed in drone strikes?
No child should die needlessly. But are US kids better than Pakistani kids???
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Don’t even.
US exceptionalism. I marched with 2 million of my fellow canadians to protest a
war that your previous president wanted. Millions around the world did the
same. And what did your country do? In scale, the same thing you did
above--come up with excuses and ‘rational arguments’ and, well, if we’re honest,
deceived notions to assuage the consciousnessess of the masses, as to why you
had to--WMD! Freedom!! 9/11!!! The oil’ll pay for it all!!!
K, where are we now?
Still going on.
Dave K
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Message is in Reply To:
 | | Re: We'll just wave...
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| (...) Logical fallacy alert... "We must do SOMETHING!!!!" "THIS is 'something'" ... "therefore we must do THIS" Often, the right thing to do is, "nothing", that is, don't change the system as a whole in response to a minor upset. Also, I am reminded (...) (11 years ago, 20-Dec-12, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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