Subject:
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Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Thu, 27 Jun 2002 18:09:41 GMT
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Viewed:
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1654 times
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John:
The founding fathers were not religious and they were certainly not
christians -- and that's putting it mildly. More anon...
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal writes:
> This country was *not* founded by a group of Atheists;
I am sure at least some critical members actually were; or if not, they were
merely deists[1] -- which is sort of like being an agnostic, but with more
contempt for the "creator." Ultimately, I think it was politically
expedient to not deny the existence of god -- it being a good way to wring
needed support from "believers" (a.k.a. the lowest common denominator).
> At the core of our greatness lies the belief in one God.
Nonsense. Our greatness, if there is such, lies in our political philosophy
-- which has nothing to do with god.
> This country is the way it is because it is the way it is-- change it at its
> core and you get a different country.
Welcome to the new world.
-- Hop-Frog
[1]de·ism. noun
The belief, based solely on reason, in a God who created the universe and
then abandoned it, assuming no control over life, exerting no influence on
natural phenomena, and giving no supernatural revelation.
Other Refs:
"As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I
think the System of Morals and his Religion . . . has received various
corrupting Changes, and I have, with most of the present Dissenters in
England, some Doubts as to his Divinity; tho' it is a question I do not
dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy
myself with it now, when I expect soon an Opportunity of knowing the Truth
with less Trouble." -- Benjamin Franklin, letter to Ezra Stiles March 9, 1790
"I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life I absented
myself from Christian assemblies." -- Benjamin Franklin, in "Toward The Mystery"
"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every
noble enterprise." -- James Madison, letter to William Bradford April 1, 1774
"The Christian god can be easily pictured as virtually the same as the many
ancient gods of past civilizations. The Christian god is a three headed
monster; cruel, vengeful and capricious. If one wishes to know more of this
raging, three headed beast-like god, one only needs to look at the caliber
of the people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes: fools
and hypocrites." -- Thomas Jefferson, letter to his nephew, Peter Carr
"The Christian priesthood, finding the doctrines of Christ levelled to every
understanding and too plain to need explanation, saw, in the mysticisms of
Plato, materials with which they might build up an artificial system which
might, from its indistinctness, admit everlasting controversy, give
employment for their order, and introduce it to profit, power, and
pre-eminence. The doctrines which flowed from the lips of Jesus himself are
within the comprehension of a child; but thousands of volumes have not yet
explained the Platonisms engrafted on them: and for this obvious reason that
nonsense can never be explained." -- Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams,
July 5, 1814
"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman
church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant
church, nor by any church that I know of . . . Each of those churches accuse
the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all." --
Thomas Paine, "The Age of Reason"
"...denominated a Deist, the reality of which I never disputed, being
conscious I am no Christian." -- Ethan Allen, "Reason the Only Oracle of Man"
"As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense
founded on the Christian Religion, -- as it has in itself no character of
enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen,-- and as the
said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any
Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from
religous opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing
between the two countries. " -- Joel Barlow, Article 11 of the "Treaty of
Peace and Friendship" between the US and the Bey and Subjects of Tripoli of
Barbary, written during Washington's administration, ratified during Adams'
administration.
"The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity. Nowhere in
the Gospels do we find a precept for Creeds, Confessions, Oaths, Doctrines,
and whole carloads of other foolish trumpery that we find in Christianity.
-- John Adams
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