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 Off-Topic / Debate / 10056
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Subject: 
Re: A question of remembrance...
Newsgroups: 
lugnet.off-topic.debate
Date: 
Fri, 27 Apr 2001 11:35:45 GMT
Reply-To: 
ssgore@&Spamless&superonline.com
Viewed: 
670 times
  
Scott A wrote:
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Selçuk Göre writes:
Scott A wrote:
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Selçuk Göre writes:
Scott A wrote:

The differnce is that the public in the UK expect even convicted murderers
to be treated as humans... not murdered raped or tortured. Sure, the police
do not always do it. Sure there have been mistakes. But the public expects
it... or at least I do.

So at least you already got the main idea, partially..:-) And believe
me, public DOES NOT always want this kind of perfect humanity if enough
encourage and motivation is a given. History is full of this.

You have a government which systematically abuses human rights and as taken
part in the killing of ~6000 civilians in the war you describe. Who voted
for them?

6000 civilians? You are sure right? And systematically?..Wow..You
enlightened me..:-) Doc knows my country better than me..:-) I know
Turkey has the worst kind of scum as a government for decades but only
one thing that I'm sure of exists, They cannot plan, they cannot do
anything systematically. And for the human right abuses, do you "really"
know anything about that? Our government does not discriminate any
portion of the population. They mostly abuses all of them equally..:-)
We are living in a third world country you genius!..

And no. I don't vote for them. But you really believe that votes can
make a difference? not in theory, but in practice?

War is slime. And when covered with slime, it is always difficult
sorting the things out. The Kurdish thing here in south eastern Turkey
was/is a WAR. Between fully terrorist group PKK and Turkish Armed
Forces. It is a war that consumed 40.000 lives along its duration of
fifteen years, from both sides (do not forget to consider both "sides"
are citizens of Turkish Republic).

So what is the cause of the slime here? Is any illegal/rebel
organization can rise to power without any motivation and support? Even
assuming the motivation comes from lower living standards of the whole
southern part of the Turkey, who are those supporters? Who wanted a
country to consume its young lives (from both sides) and future of the
others (could you realize the amount of money that devoted to a war
15-year-long? Could you realize the importance of that amount for a
country like Turkey?)? Who supplied NATO inventory weapons like stinger
AA missiles to the group? How can they afford such weapons, and other
more trivial ones, and all the logistics (I'm talking about a full scale
guerilla army of thousands)? Who has the most profit here?

The IRA has weapons UK, USA and eastern Europe. Bizarrely, some of the
weapons from the USA were sent to NI via regular mail.

I think you again got the idea..:-)

AND, do you really know anything that worth knowing, about the Kurdish
problem here, of its (very recent, less than a hundred years) history?

I know  about the Ilisu dam, will it not make 15000 kurds homless?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_1026000/1026204.stm

Kurds? A dam being built, and it make Kurdish people being homeless?.
You don't have any clue about the life here in Turkey. There is no
"Kurdish only/Turkish only" type of large area settlements here in
Turkey. I think you are more clueless than the article you given to me,
since it says "15000 people" and "dozens of Kurdish towns" but not
"15000 kurds". The article again somehow clueless though, since it
mentions 15000 future homeless (I'm sure there are both Kurdish and
Turkish people in it, both citizens of Turkish Republic) but it
purposefully highlights dozens of "kurdish towns" being flooded (in an
average village in south eastern Turkey, only several hundred people
lives, and dozens of them does not make 15000). It is not a new thing.
Dams are always being built for the last century, and many many villages
being flooded. I can believe that the location of the dam chosen poorly
from the environmental point of view, and I can really believe that this
dam is not necessary but being projected just for the individual profits
of some scums calling themselves as politicians, BUT are you really
imagining that Turkish Government will build a dam to flood Kurdish
villages? Bahhh. Our government is incapable of planning a thing like
that, and they do not plan such a thing without any individual profit.


There is not a thing like "good war/honorable war" existing on earth,
and it never existed. Go after who crated all this hassle, if you really
prefer to have a point. Trying to nitpick dirtier part of a total dirt
is just... gabble.

The fact is that until Turkey sorts this out it will never be part of the EU.

Scott A


Being part of EU is not my very urgent problem. Right now, I'm just
trying to survive, from the recent collapse of Turkish Economy(!). So
bet I care much of it..:-)

And believe me, if your dearest country and its allies see it as a
profitable thing, whether there is a Kurdish/Cyprus/Agean Sea/whatever
you call problem exist or not, we will be part of your very dear union,
and believe me, you won't have any ways to "vote" about it.  Not that I
believe putting us inside EU is profitable from any of the participant
countries right now.

Do you really believe that any government cares about the well fare of
any kind of human being? Without any real profit behind? I think this is
a syndrome of living in a prosperous and rich country (sitting in a
comfortable and safe seat syndrome) where the governors take precautions
to not make their little plays obvious. In a third world country, they
don't even try to make them secret so you can easily see through it.

Again you are very dare while living in a country with the most ugly
history on earth. You owe your comfortable and safe seat to this well
known history. Not that I don't want to be in place of you.

Selçuk

And I feel that I must remind you, I'm not talking about a subject here
that I'm watching easily from my TV, sitting in my comfortable and SAFE
seat. I was partially inside of it (Turkish army based on conscription,
might be you know) and I'm a person who lives in his "safe" town, which
is quite familiar with bombs gone off in public places.

Selçuk



Message has 1 Reply:
  Re: A question of remembrance...
 
(...) See: (URL) counts 4500 civilian deaths. Scott A (...) (24 years ago, 27-Apr-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Message is in Reply To:
  Re: A question of remembrance...
 
(...) You have a government which systematically abuses human rights and as taken part in the killing of ~6000 civilians in the war you describe. Who voted for them? (...) The IRA has weapons UK, USA and eastern Europe. Bizarrely, some of the (...) (24 years ago, 27-Apr-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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