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In lugnet.general, Mark Haye writes:
Thanks Mark,
for your reply and good hints and questions!
> > I just have done a bigger update on my "LEGO® Motor History" site.
> > http://www-public.tu-bs.de:8080/~rbeneke/lego/9v_12v/9v_12v.html
>
> Ben, this is a great site. I find the motor history fascinating. I do have
> a few questions:
>
> I have seen pictures of a 60s-era motor and battery box that were made with
> clear parts.
> There is a scan on Joe Lauher's "The Construction Toy Homepage" web site:
> http://www.chem.sunysb.edu/msl/LEGO/60s_c1.jpg
> Is this the earliest known LEGO motor? Was it before you started
> collecting?
This catalog is not dated, but I suppose it might be from before 1966. If
that's the case, this would be indeed the very first Lego® motor. But anyhow:
it was a US-only set from the samsonite era. These have had some parts we never
got here in Europe. For e.g. we have never had these extra large gear wheels.
Our gear wheels (invented in 1972 in only 3 sizes) have had other numbers of
teeth and different colours to.
http://members.xoom.com/legoit/m72de-06.jpg
Maybe someone of the experts is able to tell exaclty from which year this
catalog is: on page two I see a tow bar: that's a part which was invented in
1965. So this catalog might be from the same year.
http://www.chem.sunysb.edu/msl/LEGO/60s_c2.jpg
> You say that the 4.5v battery box grew between the '69-'75 version in set
> 103 and
> the '76-'89 version in set 107 in order to accomodate larger batteries. I
> have a motor
> and battery box from set 310 (Motorized Trucks) which I received for
> Christmas in '69
> and I have a set 107 which I purchased in '85. The only difference I see
> between the
> battery boxes is that the newer one has a thicker lid (two plates thick
> instead of one).
Yes, and batteries grew in diameter: if you put todays type C (I hope that's
right?) into the old boxes, the walls bend alot.
I once bought an old battery box, still filled with batteries from the middle
of the 70ies: the really have been somewhat smaller in diameter! And a friend
of mine is sure that all batteries have been in that smaller size in his youth
and he even remembers that the size was oficially enlarged. I think that was
possibly only a German/European problem to change size to international
standard?
But even worse is the usage of rechargeable type C batteries: they are one or
two millimeters longer, than the normal ones.
> The size of the battery compartments themselves are identical. To my
> knowledge the
> battery size has never changed. Perhaps Europe used to use different sizes?
> Are
> you still able to find batteries of the right size to fit your set 103?
> What size are they?
For the old battery boxes I use rechargeable type AA batteries. They have
exactly the right lenght, but of course a too small diameter. But you can solve
that with wrapping around thick paper, or adding plastic rings as adapters.
> Are you going to expand the site to contain information on motors not
> specifically used
> for trains? I would love to see more ... keep up the good work.
I'm a trainiac and due to this, I will not complete the site with technic and
other motors, even if that are not so much: I know grey 4.5 V, black 12V, and
two types of 9V technic motors. Of course micro motor and at least the basic
motor. (Are there any Duplo motors?)
Best Regards,
Ben
BTW: what's the set number of the clear samsonite motor?
Ok, just searched myself in Pause: it's 002, but no year is given :-(
But next questions: does the box have a switch? And how do you fix the wheels?
Surftip for old Lego® paperware:
http://buerger.metropolis.de/legoit/lego.html
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Reinhard "Ben" Beneke wrote ...
> in lugnet.general, Mark Haye writes:
> > I have seen pictures of a 60s-era motor and battery box that were made with clear parts.
> > There is a scan on Joe Lauher's "The Construction Toy Homepage" web site:
> > http://www.chem.sunysb.edu/msl/LEGO/60s_c1.jpg
> > Is this the earliest known LEGO motor? Was it before you started collecting?
>
> This catalog is not dated, but I suppose it might be from before 1966. If
> that's the case, this would be indeed the very first Lego® motor. But anyhow:
> it was a US-only set from the samsonite era. These have had some parts we never
> got here in Europe. For e.g. we have never had these extra large gear wheels.
> Our gear wheels (invented in 1972 in only 3 sizes) have had other numbers of
> teeth and different colours to.
> http://members.xoom.com/legoit/m72de-06.jpg
Yes, I remember having a set of the gears also. I think I would have preferred the European
version since they used cross-axles instead of the wheels with smooth metal axles, which would
slip under the slightest stress.
> Maybe someone of the experts is able to tell exaclty from which year this
> catalog is: on page two I see a tow bar: that's a part which was invented in
> 1965. So this catalog might be from the same year.
> http://www.chem.sunysb.edu/msl/LEGO/60s_c2.jpg
You are correct that the set in the picture was US-only, but perhaps there was a European
equivalent?
> > You say that the 4.5v battery box grew between the '69-'75 version in set 103 and
> > the '76-'89 version in set 107 in order to accomodate larger batteries. I have a motor
> > and battery box from set 310 (Motorized Trucks) which I received for Christmas in '69
> > and I have a set 107 which I purchased in '85. The only difference I see between the
> > battery boxes is that the newer one has a thicker lid (two plates thick instead of one).
>
> Yes, and batteries grew in diameter: if you put todays type C (I hope that's
> right?) into the old boxes, the walls bend alot.
>
> I once bought an old battery box, still filled with batteries from the middle
> of the 70ies: the really have been somewhat smaller in diameter! And a friend
> of mine is sure that all batteries have been in that smaller size in his youth
> and he even remembers that the size was oficially enlarged. I think that was
> possibly only a German/European problem to change size to international
> standard?
The C batteries that I have today still fit perfectly in the battery box I've had since 1969. I don't
ever remember the battery size changing in my lifetime. It must be a European-only change.
> BTW: what's the set number of the clear samsonite motor?
> Ok, just searched myself in Pause: it's 002, but no year is given :-(
>
> But next questions: does the box have a switch? And how do you fix the wheels?
Excellent questions ... are you sure you don't want to expand your page to include the answers? ;-)
>
> Surftip for old Lego® paperware:
> http://buerger.metropolis.de/legoit/lego.html
--
Mark Haye, mark_haye(@)tivoli(.)com
IBM TSM Server Development, Tucson, AZ
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Reinhard \"Ben\" Beneke wrote:
> In lugnet.general, Mark Haye writes:
>
> Thanks Mark,
>
> for your reply and good hints and questions!
>
> > > I just have done a bigger update on my "LEGO® Motor History" site.
> > > http://www-public.tu-bs.de:8080/~rbeneke/lego/9v_12v/9v_12v.html
> >
> > Ben, this is a great site. I find the motor history fascinating. I do have
> > a few questions:
> >
> > I have seen pictures of a 60s-era motor and battery box that were made with
> > clear parts.
> > There is a scan on Joe Lauher's "The Construction Toy Homepage" web site:
> > http://www.chem.sunysb.edu/msl/LEGO/60s_c1.jpg
> > Is this the earliest known LEGO motor? Was it before you started
> > collecting?
>
> This catalog is not dated, but I suppose it might be from before 1966. If
> that's the case, this would be indeed the very first Lego® motor. But anyhow:
> it was a US-only set from the samsonite era. These have had some parts we never
> got here in Europe. For e.g. we have never had these extra large gear wheels.
> Our gear wheels (invented in 1972 in only 3 sizes) have had other numbers of
> teeth and different colours to.
> http://members.xoom.com/legoit/m72de-06.jpg
>
> Maybe someone of the experts is able to tell exaclty from which year this
> catalog is: on page two I see a tow bar: that's a part which was invented in
> 1965. So this catalog might be from the same year.
> http://www.chem.sunysb.edu/msl/LEGO/60s_c2.jpg
>
> > You say that the 4.5v battery box grew between the '69-'75 version in set
> > 103 and
> > the '76-'89 version in set 107 in order to accomodate larger batteries. I
> > have a motor
> > and battery box from set 310 (Motorized Trucks) which I received for
> > Christmas in '69
> > and I have a set 107 which I purchased in '85. The only difference I see
> > between the
> > battery boxes is that the newer one has a thicker lid (two plates thick
> > instead of one).
>
> Yes, and batteries grew in diameter: if you put todays type C (I hope that's
> right?) into the old boxes, the walls bend alot.
>
> I once bought an old battery box, still filled with batteries from the middle
> of the 70ies: the really have been somewhat smaller in diameter! And a friend
> of mine is sure that all batteries have been in that smaller size in his youth
> and he even remembers that the size was oficially enlarged. I think that was
> possibly only a German/European problem to change size to international
> standard?
>
> But even worse is the usage of rechargeable type C batteries: they are one or
> two millimeters longer, than the normal ones.
>
> > The size of the battery compartments themselves are identical. To my
> > knowledge the
> > battery size has never changed. Perhaps Europe used to use different sizes?
> > Are
> > you still able to find batteries of the right size to fit your set 103?
> > What size are they?
>
> For the old battery boxes I use rechargeable type AA batteries. They have
> exactly the right lenght, but of course a too small diameter. But you can solve
> that with wrapping around thick paper, or adding plastic rings as adapters.
>
> > Are you going to expand the site to contain information on motors not
> > specifically used
> > for trains? I would love to see more ... keep up the good work.
>
> I'm a trainiac and due to this, I will not complete the site with technic and
> other motors, even if that are not so much: I know grey 4.5 V, black 12V, and
> two types of 9V technic motors. Of course micro motor and at least the basic
> motor. (Are there any Duplo motors?)
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Ben
>
> BTW: what's the set number of the clear samsonite motor?
> Ok, just searched myself in Pause: it's 002, but no year is given :-(
>
> But next questions: does the box have a switch? And how do you fix the wheels?
>
> Surftip for old Lego® paperware:
> http://buerger.metropolis.de/legoit/lego.html
OK, this catalog is probably circa 1966. Many of these sets were made until 1970,
including the gears. The USA/Canada gears are of a different type than the
European gears. The European gears were connected to axles, whereas the Samsonite
gears were connected to bricks, plates and wheels. What makes dating even more
difficult is that many of the model pictures are the same ones that are in a 1961
(Building Idea Book 1 - #238). Usually I would say, "ah ha the 1x1 round bricks
are not tapered" (the new variety came out in 1966), but it is difficult to
determine this when some pictures are 5 years older than the sets.
Gary Istok
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